“This has to change. I am really sick and tired of the Israeli government, the Netanyahu government, taking American taxpayer dollars and then mistreating Americans,” Van Hollen said in a video statement.

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The senator said Sama Safi, a student at Birzeit University, was taken from her home at 3 AM Tuesday by Israeli security forces without explanation. She is one of five women arrested in the predawn raid. Her mother, also a U.S. citizen, told Van Hollen her daughter suffers from familial Mediterranean fever. This chronic inflammatory condition requires daily medication, and she is extremely worried about her health in detention.

“Israeli security forces came to her home at 3:00 AM in the morning and just took her without explanation. She told them she was an American citizen. They didn’t care,” Van Hollen said. “I talked to her mother…She was absolutely distraught. She told me that her daughter has a medical condition that needs treatment.”

The Israeli military said the women were suspected of “promoting terrorist activities” but provided no further charges or evidence. Safi’s family said soldiers ransacked her room, confiscated her phone, laptop, and photographs of her cousin, who was killed by Israeli forces in 2024. She was handcuffed, blindfolded, and placed in a military vehicle. Safi is being held at the Al-Mascubia interrogation center in Jerusalem and has a first court date set for next Tuesday.

Only two members of Congress have publicly addressed the detention: Van Hollen and Sen. Peter Welch, D-Vt. Welch posted on Facebook that Israeli authorities must ensure her safety and provide access to family, legal counsel, and medication. Both senators previously helped secure the release of Muhammad Ibrahim, an American teenager held for 10 months without charge in Israel, who was freed in November 2024 after their advocacy.

“If not for these two senators,” said TYT’s Sharon Reed on The Young Turks, “I don’t know if we know where she was right now, if her family would.”

Sharon, along with Cenk Uygur, reacted with outrage not only at the detention but at what they described as a pattern of Israeli mistreatment of Americans met with official silence in Washington.

“We give them $3.8 billion, let alone the $21 billion under Biden, the $13 billion under Trump, the over $300 billion, etc.,” Cenk said. “So when we ask, ‘Hey, why did you arrest our citizen?’ — that should not be an optional question. If I were president, I’d be like, ‘No, I won’t find out in court because here’s what’s going to happen. Every day that you don’t give me the answer, I’m going to minus $100 million from your $3.8 billion.’”

Cenk cited U.S. leverage as the primary benefactor of Israel’s military, arguing that the failure to use it has created a climate of impunity. He noted that 13 American citizens have been killed by Israeli forces since Oct. 7, 2023, in addition to the 2022 killing of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, and not a single person has been charged or held accountable. He contrasted that with the case of Tom Alexanderich, an Israeli cybersecurity official arrested in Las Vegas on sexual assault charges, whom Israel quickly extracted before he could face justice in the U.S.

“Israel killed 13 Americans and didn’t arrest a single person for it. Did [Ambassador Mike] Huckabee or any of our governments? Did anyone ask that these people be arrested? Nobody was even investigated, let alone charged, let alone arrested,” Cenk said. “That means the Israelis can literally murder American citizens, and we won’t even ask for justice. That’s so insane.”

Sharon highlighted the deafening silence of the mainstream media. She said she searched cable news all day and found “not a damn thing.”

“When it comes to mainstream media, you’d better be afraid,” Sharon said. “That is precisely the point. They are letting you know, run your mouth. We can disappear you, and even your own country is not going to back you up. It is chilling…There is this threesome between Israel, the U.S., our politicians, and of course, the mainstream media.”

Cenk added that the media’s disinterest reveals a deeper bias: of the 13 Americans killed since 2023, only one, a white Christian man, Jacob Flickinger, received any U.S. government reaction, and it was minimal. The others were Muslim Americans.

“Our government is saying we’re bigots and not all Americans are equal,” Cenk said. “If you’re a Muslim American, you don’t count.”

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Khanna’s amendment targeted Section 224 of the National Defense Authorization Act, which he and critics say would embed Israeli forces into America’s defense infrastructure while enriching defense contractors at the expense of U.S. sovereignty. Only one Democrat, Rep. Sara Jacobs of California, joined Khanna in voting to remove the language. Every other committee, Democrat and Republican, kept the provision intact.

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“What 224 would essentially do is merge the Israeli military with the U.S. military,” explained Ana Kasparian. “There would be more enhanced intelligence cooperation, and it would provide more access to the IDF to our intelligence and access to our military infrastructure.”

Ana noted that the idea originated with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who wrote to Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., congratulating him on the proposal. Stutzman has publicly pitched replacing direct military aid with a framework of joint defense co-production, co-development, and mutual investment. Section 224, buried deep in the NDAA, would let Israeli manufacturers operate production facilities in the United States and give Israel what Ana called “unprecedented access to U.S. technology development and data fusion.”

Cenk Uygur framed the committee vote as proof that both parties serve a foreign interest rather than American voters.

“Eighty percent of Democratic voters are against Israel. Yet other than Sara Jacobs and Ro Khanna, every one of them, like dogs, was like, ‘No, we prefer Israel to our voters, ’” Cenk said.

Cenk charged that “the Democrats, along with the Republicans, have been purchased by the Israeli lobby…that is a stone-cold fact,” and pointed to a projected $1.5 trillion Pentagon budget as evidence that Israel will now exploit U.S. military spending. “We gave them $320 billion. We’re about to hand over all of our military spending to them.”

The committee’s top Democrat, Rep. Adam Smith of Washington, opposed Khanna’s amendment while saying he sympathizes with frustrations about Netanyahu. Smith argued that cooperation already exists in three programs and that the U.S. benefits from joint technology development. Khanna and his supporters called that a deception designed to disguise an effective merger while skirting public scrutiny.

Khanna, in floor remarks, hammered the prime minister’s direct role. “We need to tell Netanyahu that America calls the shots, not the prime minister of any other country,” he said. “Only the United States Congress would dream up at this moment, ‘Let’s actually do more for Israel, not less.’ And that’s what Section 224 does.”

The provision now advances within the must-pass NDAA, virtually assuring it will become law unless a rare floor rebellion removes it. Cenk warned that the move isn’t about cutting aid but hiding it. “They realize they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and they’ve lost the American people,” he said. “This is a way to trick you, to respond politically to the growing percentage of Americans who do not want to provide military support to Israel.”

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Kuwait’s defense ministry confirmed it was under attack from drones and missiles, with strikes hitting Camp F and Ali al-Salam air base in at least two waves, according to Iranian state broadcaster IIB. Explosions were also reported in Bahrain, where U.S. naval facilities are located, and near Erbil in northern Iraq, where Iran said it targeted Iranian Kurdish opposition groups it accuses of collaborating with the United States and Israel.

The IRGC issued a stark warning: “The time of strike and run has passed. Any further aggression will be met with a seismic, decisive, and crushing response.”

The attacks follow a U.S. Central Command confirmation that American forces struck Keshum Island earlier Tuesday. The U.S. has also maintained a naval blockade of Iranian uranium ports since April 13, disabling six commercial vessels and redirecting 122 others, according to CENTCOM. A Botswana-flagged commercial tanker was disabled by a U.S. Hellfire missile last week after it attempted to reach Iran’s Kish Island.

Cenk said the renewed hostilities confirm fears that Iran is no longer willing to absorb strikes without a forceful response.

“I think that Iran has been hinting for a long time now during the ceasefire: you better not come out of the ceasefire. If you do, we’ve got something up our sleeve that you are not going to like at all,” Cenk said. “I’m worried they’re not bluffing…We have to be a lot more careful. We have to be worried about the service members we have there in the region, and they are now in danger because the war has restarted.”

Ana argued that the U.S. has no viable military path to reopen the Strait of Hormuz and that only good-faith diplomacy can resolve the crisis.

“There is no military option to reopen the Strait of Hormuz…the only way to end this is if the United States engages in good faith in diplomatic talks with Iran. But Trump doesn’t want to do that,” she said. “You want to know who doesn’t seem to give a damn about the lives of our soldiers, of our service members? President Trump.”

Both emphasized that the U.S. possesses enormous leverage over Israel, whose government has pushed for continued strikes on Iran and its proxies, but that no American president has ever used it.

“No one has more leverage than us over Israel because we give them an infinite amount of money and an infinite amount of military support,” Cenk said. “But yet, magically, no U.S. president ever uses our overwhelming leverage against Israel. Why?”

Ana called on the administration to reverse course immediately. “Stop striking Iran and for once represent the United States as opposed to Israel and make a deal with the Iranians,” she said.

Cenk warned that the escalation risks an economic catastrophe far beyond the battlefield. “We are headed toward a global depression,” he said. “Things that haven’t happened in your lifetime are about to happen.”

With the war now restarted and Iran signaling it will respond disproportionately to further American attacks, Cenk predicted the odds of a full-blown, irreversible conflict have climbed to 95%.

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Piker linked the personal attacks to what he called a “sophisticated smear campaign” by media outlets and political figures, including Fox News and Democratic Rep. Josh Gottheimer, who criticized Piker for describing a New York City Israel Day parade featuring far-right Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich as a “Nazi parade.” Noting that Smotrich has backed policies to starve Gaza’s population and annex the West Bank, and faces a potential arrest warrant from the International Criminal Court, Piker said the presence of top Democrats alongside such figures exposed the contradictions of what he termed “liberal Zionism.” He drew an analogy to a Ku Klux Klan march, arguing it was disingenuous to be shocked that an Israeli cabinet member appeared at an event celebrating the Israeli state.

Asked about the viability of a two-state solution, Piker said he would accept any outcome that Palestinians support, but personally advocated for a single, secular binational state with equal rights, reparations, and a right of return for Palestinian refugees. He called the existing two-state framework a “fake solution” that perpetuates an apartheid reality, pointing to the difficulty of removing 750,000 settlers from the occupied West Bank. Cenk read a recent Smotrich statement boasting about demolishing Palestinian homes “of four, five, and even six stories,” and argued that mainstream American media bear responsibility for sustaining domestic support for Israeli policies that most Americans would otherwise reject.

Turning to electoral politics, Piker said the British Labour Party under Keir Starmer had abandoned its populist wing by purging supporters of former leader Jeremy Corbyn, many of whom have turned to the Green Party and its anti-Zionist leader Zack Polanski. He described the U.S. Democratic Party as a weak coalition of corporate and foreign interests that is disconnected from its voters, but expressed hope that a growing bloc of progressive, anti-war candidates pushing for Medicare for All and an end to unconditional military support for Israel could transform the party. Cenk concluded that public pressure would eventually force a reckoning, adding that Americans are “not anywhere near that evil” and that the dam holding back accountability would break once the media’s propaganda grip loosens.

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Full interview transcript:

Ana Kasparian: Welcome back to The Young Turks. I’m Ana Kasparian, and Hasan joins us.

Cenk Uygur: So now that both Hasan and I are here, you’re at serious risk of public disorder. Mayhem might break out at any second. We’re both on Hasan’s stream on Twitch and our show on YouTube and everywhere else.

Ana Kasparian: So, Hasan, can I start off with something a little different? We’re going to talk about Cenk and Hasan getting banned from the UK, but I see this as part of a broader campaign targeting you, Hasan, because I don’t like being put in a situation where I have to defend you. I’m just going to keep it 100. Dave Rubin went on a show and claimed that you harassed me and other women at work, which was a brazen lie. I went out and said it was a brazen lie. You never once harassed me at work. What do you think this is about? And why do you think they think it’s okay to just make up lies about you like that? Sexual harassment is a serious allegation. And for Dave Rubin, who I haven’t spoken to in over a decade, to speak on my behalf like that and make something up is insane.

Hasan Piker: Yeah. I think it’s a campaign of misinformation and smearing prominent critics of Israel no matter which way they can. It’s very obvious that they’re getting increasingly more desperate. Now, with Dave Rubin, it’s a unique predicament because on the one hand, I’m thinking, is this part of a broader sophisticated smear campaign, or is it simply just Dave Rubin being stupid? Because he’s just so unbelievably stupid. So with Dave Rubin, you’ve got to think about both options.

But yeah, I do see a coordinated effort. Fox News is probably watching this broadcast right now. They have people stationed on my broadcast every single day. They just do a transcript readout of every single thing I talk about and publish it. On the other side, this has obviously escalated since the subpoena, which I never received, by the way. Will Cain was talking about how some counterprotesters at the Delaney facility in New Jersey — that I went to with Adam Hamoui, who’s running for Congress in New Jersey, to check out the heinous conditions inside the facility and hear from the protesters about the ways state troopers and federal ICE officers were brutalizing them for exercising their First Amendment human rights — there were a lot of agitators, a lot of pro-ICE counterprotesters there specifically to yell at the protesters. They yelled at me as well. And Will Cain earlier today covered that as though it was actually the ICE protesters yelling at me. So I feel like there’s this effort to slander and smear prominent critics of Israel, prominent critics of the Trump administration, no matter which way they can.

There’s obviously a bipartisan effort in some respects. Josh Gottheimer earlier today also said — because I called the Israel Day parade, which had Bezalel Smotrich, a Nazi parade. I said there are Nazis at this parade. It’s a Nazi parade, and prominent Democrats like Chuck Schumer and Kathy Hochul were participating in a Nazi parade. And Josh Gottheimer didn’t like that. He was saying I’ve defended Hamas and therefore maybe my read for who’s a Nazi is broken. He’s been ducking me. I’ve told him I’d be willing to have regular discourse with him. But none of these guys want to actually entertain the conversation. They can’t attack the message. They can’t counter the message, so they attack the messenger in despair. That’s all they know. But I think people are fed up with it.

Ana Kasparian: They’ll call you anti-Semitic, but they’ll never call you wrong, right? They never engage with the substance of what you’re saying. So it doesn’t surprise me at all that Josh is running away. If he sat down and engaged in a debate with you, what’s the substance of his argument? You can’t defend the indefensible. We all see what’s happening in Gaza. We all see what’s happening in Lebanon. We see the entire global economy being destroyed right now because of this war the US got dragged into against Iran by Israel. I just feel like, look, everything that’s happening right now, they think it’s going to work — these bans, the censorship. Everyone sees what’s going on, and in fact, everything they’re doing is actually incredibly counterproductive to what they want to accomplish here.

Cenk Uygur: Yeah. So, Hasan, to that point, how do you think the rest of this plays out? I don’t mean about the UK — we’ll come back to that, whether we’re ever allowed to go there again. It’s hilarious. You were just there a little while ago, I was just there a little while ago, and mayhem didn’t break out. The public order wasn’t immediately destroyed. But it feels like the powerful in the US and the UK, and in a lot of Western countries — but not all of them — are starting to tighten their grip. They’ve lost the media wars, so they’re just going to outright oppression. But now the overwhelming majority of British citizens and American citizens are on our side, not their side. So how does this movie end?

Hasan Piker: I think inevitably there’s going to be too much public pressure, and once there’s too much public pressure, governments like ours here in the United States and in the UK and far beyond in Europe are going to have to make a decision. Do they want to drop all pretense that they have a democratic process, that they care about liberal humanitarian values they claim to espouse, or are they going to increase the repression? Unfortunately, what a lot of people either don’t understand or are moving in the direction of is exactly that. What did the UK do? They proscribed Palestine Action as a terrorist organization, and then they started arresting en masse thousands of pensioners, disabled protesters, young people who dared to say they support Palestine Action.

Ana Kasparian: Well, they’re so dangerous. All those elderly people they rounded up and arrested — so dangerous. And by the way, Hasan, you know, Cenk alluded to the fact you were in the UK not that long ago. I want to show everyone what you were talking about when you were there not too long ago. Let’s take a look at that.

[Clip of Hasan speaking at a previous event]

Hasan Piker (clip): Anti-Semitism is a canary in the coal mine of fascism. It’s one of the oldest bigotries that has caused those of the Jewish faith a tremendous amount of pain. From pogroms to the Holocaust, Jews have always been singled out by those in power as a scapegoat for instability and economic volatility. People in power cause a resilient, constant threat; anti-Semitism is especially present as economic instability makes those in power seek out old targets. They’re not very creative usually — they just rehash the same propaganda over and over again. This is precisely the reason I am terrified of the conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. The conflation is dangerous. Valid criticisms against the state, especially as all of the violence is unfolding and everyone can see it, valid criticisms against the state committing these atrocities and tying it back to Judaism is a cynical ploy to stop all manner of conversation. It is truly terrifying, and I think it directly causes anti-Semitism to fester.

Ana Kasparian: And look, I agree with everything you said there. I don’t see the Zionist project as a project that seeks to protect the Jewish population. In fact, they couldn’t care less about anti-Zionist Jews, and the treatment of anti-Zionist Jews makes that abundantly clear to me. I mean, look at the way they talk about people like Dave Smith, Glenn Greenwald, and others. It’s just amazing to me that the people who are getting punished right now are those who have a problem with mass slaughter campaigns and land theft. It’s insane. That’s not really a question. I just wanted to make that point.

Cenk Uygur: No, yeah. I’m curious for Hasan to finish his thought. So now that the audience has seen, of course, you didn’t say anything anti-Semitic. In fact, you said the exact opposite — literally the exact opposite. So how does this movie end? Because now our governments say, “We don’t care what you think. It doesn’t matter. We’re just going to oppress you on behalf of Israel.”

Hasan Piker: Yeah. I don’t know. There’s only two options out of this. It’s either de-escalation on behalf of the British government, the American government — and we have seen some de-escalation on other issues from the American government, like in Minneapolis, where there was far too much public pressure through people-backed campaigns of protesting against ICE activity. It was an occupation by the Trump administration, and there was some success there. So even the most powerful country on earth, the United States of America, was able to cave and capitulate to the demands of the public when it got far too heated. And of course, they ended up assassinating two American citizens in broad daylight in the process. I guess a similar thing could take place in the UK with this issue as long as the protests continue. Because at the end of the day, they have to make a decision. Are they going to allow fascism to manifest, or are they going to maintain the pretense that democracy and the democratic process still works? Because it’s gotten to a degree where the overwhelming majorities of masses in almost all Western countries have realized what’s going on, and they can’t really arrest every single person.

So, they might have the moneyed interests, they might have a pervasive, sophisticated influence-peddling operation they’ve utilized for decades, but we have the people. And the people are not giving in. As a matter of fact, this kind of additional state repression only angers the people further, and it actually causes people who were maybe on the sidelines — who might have seen the violence but never really thought about it all that much because it’s just happening over there, or maybe were afraid of Muslims and thought they might have deserved this kind of violence — to now second-guess, to now actually become participants. What people don’t appreciate is being bullied. What people don’t like is cancel culture. And Israel loves bullying people. Israel’s envoys, Israel’s most prominent defenders, are some of the most annoying people you’ve ever encountered. So when they go on television and demand with maximum arrogance, with maximum hubris, unconditional support, and then turn around and say, “If you say no to that unconditional support, you’re an enemy and you need to be deplatformed. You need to lose your job. You can’t live in polite society anymore. You can’t exist as a normal person” — well, that causes a lot of people to get frustrated at Israel even more than they previously would have.

I’ve even brought this example up with the UAE. There is no United Arab Emirates lobby in the United States of America. Sure, they directly give money to Donald Trump and whatnot, but ultimately there isn’t this sophisticated media machine working at the behest of the UAE that says, “Oh, if you ever bring up Sudan, you’re actually an Islamophobe and therefore you need to be punished. You need to lose your job.” But if that were the case, I think a lot more Americans would be paying attention to what the UAE is doing. And I think the Zionist lobby is suffering from its own success. For years and years, they went uncontested. It was unconditional. There was bipartisan support for Israel, and anyone who ever questioned that would be called an anti-Semite. There was a lot of weight to that accusation. Now, that’s gone. The reason it’s gone is because everyone understands Israel is committing a genocide. That genocide has caused people to look back at Israel’s history, Israel’s development, and Zionism as an ideology. It’s caused people to understand that perhaps they totally misunderstood the history of Israel for the longest time. And the toothpaste is out of the tube.

So either governments that are controlled and have some sense of responsibility to the masses will turn around and say, “Alright, enough is enough. We have to cut ties with Israel. We have to restrain Israel. This coalition we’ve designed can’t continue.” Or they’re going to become just like Israel. As I said, they’re going to turn into fascist countries.

Ana Kasparian: I’m worried. Things look very bleak. And you pointed to the event that took place in New York City over the weekend, and I want to flesh that out a little bit for the audience in case they missed that story. Because Israel’s far-right finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, was seen in New York City alongside Democrats. This is for the Israel Day parade over the weekend. Now, Zohran Mamdani, the New York City — he was facing all this backlash because he’s the first mayor in 61 years who refused to attend the Israel Day parade. And I’m glad that he did refuse, considering the fact that there was a liberal war criminal there. So let’s take a look at this J Street post on X. They write: “Bezalel Smotrich should be sanctioned by American political and Jewish communal leaders, not marching alongside them in the streets of New York City.” Smotrich is the architect of the Israeli government’s policies to ultimately annex the West Bank, said that it may be just and moral to starve 2 million Gaza residents — but no one in the world would let us. He is a supporter of Greater Israel, we all know what that is, believes Palestinians aren’t even real people, and is someone who has played a huge role in annexing parts of the West Bank, forcing Palestinians out of their homes. The International Criminal Court even has a warrant out for his arrest. Take a look at this headline: “Exclusive: ICC prosecutor’s office seeks arrest warrant for Israel’s Smotrich.” He’s marching alongside Chuck Schumer and a whole host of other Democrats at this parade over the same weekend that you and Cenk get banned from the UK because you speak out against these atrocities.

It’s a flex. There’s no other way to read it. They’re flexing on us. They get to have tremendous power and influence over what Western countries do and can’t do, and this is a product of that. There’s no other way to read it as anything but a direct threat to what the American government or the American public has to say. That’s what I think is going on. It’s about sending a message. That’s why Bezalel Smotrich is there.

Hasan Piker: And you brought up J Street, and I find that really funny because liberal Zionism is inherently contradictory. This is one of the things people get very mad at me about, because I say liberal Zionism is like saying you’re a liberal Nazi. Because Zionism is racism. Zionism is Nazism. A lot of people get very frustrated with this, and as a matter of fact, J Street’s president has gotten very frustrated with this. He’s had conversations about the sentiment with the Pod Johns over at Pod Save America. This is a direct demonstration of that inherent contradiction, because there were a lot of statements that came in the aftermath of the news articles about Bezalel Smotrich being at the Israel parade, and some people were trying to say, “Oh, he snuck in,” or claiming that no one knew he was going to be there. And it’s like, it’s the Israel parade. If you go to the Klan march, you’re going to have the grand wizard of the KKK at the Klan march. You can’t turn around and be shocked that a member of the Israeli cabinet, the finance minister of the nation-state you’re choosing to celebrate, appears at the actual celebration. Of course he’s going to be there.

So I think all the ass-covering that Kathy Hochul and even Alex Bores — which is very disappointing that he attended that, he’s too young, he knows better, and his father knows better too — but all these people that are like, “Oh, I can’t believe that the Nazi was at the Nazi parade,” are just trying to engage in this same liberal cognitive dissonance. The idea that liberal Zionism is in some ways different than the ultra-Zionism demonstrated by Bezalel Smotrich — it’s not. He’s a part of the Israeli government. He is perhaps the purest expression of the Israeli state’s violence against Palestinians, the racism it harbors against non-Jews, and Jewish supremacy. Of course he’s going to be there. He was elected, and he has every right to be there if you’re going to throw an Israel Day parade. You shouldn’t throw an Israel Day parade, and you certainly shouldn’t participate in it if you don’t want to be caught next to war criminals.

Cenk Uygur: Yeah. So, Hasan, I was going to ask you about Labour and the Democrats — I’ll come back to that — but there’s something you said there that I’m curious about. Look, you look back at Zionism. I think you’re totally right about one of the things you said, that now all these atrocities have made us look back. We were taught in America, when I was growing up, that 1948 was the Arabs attacked the poor Israelis for no reason at all, and the Israelis were the victims. Now you realize, no, it was ethnic cleansing. That’s what the Nakba was. They drove out 750,000 Palestinians from their lands, slaughtered them, killed them, and that’s why people had to run. Our media lied to us about that. They lied to us about 1967, where again Israel attacked its neighbors. We were taught they were attacked — it’s just not true. Now people go, “Oh yeah, well, of course we lied about that.” So I understand all that background, no question. When you look back at it, should they have done this Zionism idea, which has ethnic cleansing built into it in order to be a settler colony? That seems hard to defend. Now, Israel already exists. So if today Israel and the Palestinians made a deal and had two states — assume for a second that’s remotely possible — based on the 1967 borders, and they were both two independent, safe states, I would take that deal in a second. No matter how wrong Zionism was in the beginning, would you take that deal, or do you think that since Zionism is wrong, it’s unconscionable?

Hasan Piker: I personally think it’s just not up to me. Whatever is good for the Palestinians — Palestinian statehood is good for the Palestinians, that’s what they’re trying to move towards. If that means a two-state deal with 1967 borders and Palestinians are happy with that, then who am I to tell them no? I say I’m a one-stater for the reasons you just brought up. And there are some people who disagree with me on this as well. But the reason I say I’m a one-stater is the same reason Avi Shlaim eventually arrived at that conclusion, and I believe so did Ilan Pappé. These are two very prominent new historians from Israel, Jewish, who uncovered a lot of the atrocities that took place during the Nakba and after, specifically about the experience for Arab Jews moving to Israel and why they had to, and Ilan Pappé specifically about Plan Dalet. So their assessment is the same as mine. They look at 750,000 Jewish settlers that now illegally occupy both East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank — the occupied West Bank, occupied illegally by the Israeli state to specifically design a non-contiguous Palestinian state. And the removal of 750,000 Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank is virtually impossible. I don’t think they would ever do it. Israel had a very hard time removing settlers from the Sinai Peninsula, and they had an even harder time removing only 7,000 Israeli Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip when they pulled out to hermetically seal it and create the world’s largest open-air prison. They had to genuinely go there by force and remove people at gunpoint. 750,000 of the most rabid ultra-Zionists are most likely never going to leave unless they have to, because they have to live in a binational state or a single secular state that places non-Jews and Jews in the same civil court system.

What I envision looks a lot like Reconstruction, but hopefully not a failure like Reconstruction inevitably was. In that situation, I predict there would still be violence in the initial stages, but most likely violence resembling the Klan violence that took place in the segregated American South. That is my north star. That’s what I think is the best possible outcome — the most moral outcome, which would still offer reparations to the Palestinians for stolen land and death and destruction that befell them at the hands of Israel. And beyond the reparations, certainly a right to return for all 15 million Palestinians. That’s what I believe is just and moral, and that’s what I will continue to advocate for.

But if there is a 1967-boundary two-state with a standing military — not something Yitzhak Rabin even was on board with, if you recall. A lot of Israelis will say he was a peacemaker. He was a blowhard. Rabin was the head of internal security at the time when the First Intifada was taking place, and he was famous for demanding the Israeli military break the bones of little children. They did this by the tens of thousands — little Palestinian kids whose hands were broken on purpose because stone-throwing had become a symbol of the Palestinian resistance. That guy always said there would be a two-state solution, but the second state would never be a full state. It would be a reduced version of an actual state. What that implies is that the Palestinians would never have full sovereignty, would never have a standing military, for example. So that’s the reason I always look at the two-state solution as simply a continuation of what’s actually taking place right now — a one state that is an apartheid state, a one state that is dominating and occupying Gaza and also occupying the West Bank, destroying Palestinian lives and livelihood in both territories, and dangling this fake two-state solution in front of liberal blowhards in the Western world to make it seem like there is actually a peaceable solution when it’s just a continuation of the destruction of Palestinians, with the final purpose of complete ethnic cleansing from their indigenous lands.

Ana Kasparian: Yeah. And they’re not going to stop there, as we’ve learned with what they’re currently doing in Lebanon. This is a project that spans far beyond Palestinian territory. It’s not going to stop unless these so-called liberal democracies do something to stop it and stop enabling and emboldening the Israelis to do it.

Cenk Uygur: Yeah. So, last thing here — I agree with you guys on a bunch of things, including that at some point the dam’s going to break. People get offended that Hasan called them Nazis or whatever, but wait a minute — the Knesset voted that Palestinians will never be free. The Israelis have said, even in their theoretical peace, that the Palestinians can never have a full state. Let alone — I don’t mean all the peace things, there are a lot of good people like Gideon Levy in Israel — but the Zionists say no, the Palestinians will never be free. They’ll presumably always live in these open-air camps — or can I say concentration camp? They are concentrated in a tiny area of Gaza. Netanyahu bragged that they’ve taken 70% of Gaza and stuffed 2.2 million people into what’s left of the small portion of Gaza. What is that if not a camp where millions of people are concentrated? So if you’re offended by our words instead of what Israel has actually done, well, that shows moral weakness on your part.

Let me read some offensive words real quick. This is a statement from Bezalel Smotrich on Channel 14, one of his latest comments: “In the West Bank, we are destroying more Palestinian family homes than they can build. We are demolishing residential buildings of four, five, and even six stories. Now, there is much more destruction and demolition of Palestinian homes.” I think those are the types of statements people should be offended by.

Ana Kasparian: Yeah. And we’re going to show later in the show Ben Gvir talking about how they’re going to bomb the suburbs of Beirut and cause mass civilian casualties, because that’s what Israel does.

Cenk Uygur: And look, to me the number one thing holding this dam together is American mainstream media. Without the propaganda, it’s not a close question. Why would anybody want to finance these sick atrocities? The American people are not anywhere near that evil. American media is that evil. They say you have to finance it, otherwise we’ll ruin your life by calling you an anti-Semite. Anyway, all this is clear. TYT.com/ukban is a little petition to reverse the ban — that’s fun.

But Hasan, the last question I wanted to ask you: you see Labour wrapping their arms, bear-hugging Isaac Herzog, the head of the Israeli Air Force, and going, “Oh my god, these guys who committed a genocide are wonderful. Oh, but the guys opposed to a genocide are evil.” Right? And then here in America, as you guys are pointing out, the Democrats are like, “Oh yeah, I’ll go to a parade with a guy who committed genocide.” In fact, he’s one of the biggest advocates — if there were any justice in the world, he’d be the first guy up in Nuremberg-type trials. And they go, “Yeah, that’s legitimate, but Hasan campaigning with Abdal is disqualifying and illegitimate.” So, is there any hope left for the Democratic Party and the Labour Party, which appear to be the fake left in both of these countries? And if there is no hope, what do we do next?

Hasan Piker: I don’t think there’s any hope left for the Labour Party, and that is entirely in the hands of the Jeremy Corbyn assassin himself, Keir Starmer. They deliberately destroyed the actual populist wing of their party, and they did it at the behest of Israel as well. Labour Friends of Israel was a huge part of the fake anti-Semitism smears and accusations that Jeremy Corbyn was inundated with. Keir Starmer famously said, “If you don’t like what I’m doing, you can leave the party.” And many people did. Where did they go? They went to the Green Party, which is being led by Zack Polanski, a wonderful guy. He’s an anti-Zionist, he’s also Jewish. They attack him quite a bit because of his anti-Zionism, ironically enough. He has withstood some of the most heinous smears I’ve ever seen. British media can be very, very vicious — even far more vicious than American media at times. So there is an alternative there.

With the Democratic Party, a lot of people get mad at me for saying this as well, but I see a very weak party. The party is not a real party, right? It’s a coalition of different corporate interests and, you know, foreign lobbies at times — and by foreign lobbies, I just mean Israel. Let’s be real. There isn’t a profound Estonian lobby dominating Democratic Party attitudes, but there is a real disconnect between those who are voting for the Democrats and what their demands are, and what the Democrats are willing to concede on those demands. Therefore, I see this as a wonderful opportunity in all of this weakness to force in as many responsive politicians in this insurgent Bernie-crat coalition that is forming all around the country. There are plenty of democratic socialists who are open socialists, and even those who aren’t socialists but have similar policy goals, who are willing to be the fighters that will hopefully change the American trajectory from the downward trajectory we’ve been experiencing for the past couple of decades into a more positive one. People who aren’t afraid to say, “Why do we have so much loyalty to the nation-state of Israel when it’s very clear it’s done a genocide, when it’s very clear it’s an apartheid state? Why are we constantly waging wars with other countries and spending billions of dollars of tax revenue? We should instead take that money and spend it on ourselves.” All this productive output that’s being stolen from the average American — things that Donald Trump lied about and lied his way to office twice on: isolationism, America First. These were important concepts Trump advanced that he never really followed through on. But I do believe there are those who are invested in following through on this. And as long as the Democrats don’t expel people like myself and the candidates I work with in the primary system — and they’ve had a very hard time dealing with Democrats actively pushing the needle on these issues — I’m going to continue trying to win as much power for people who do abide by anti-Zionism, who want Medicare for All, who want to end America’s endless militarism.

Cenk Uygur: Yep. Alright, everybody check out Hasan’s show on Twitch, but you can also see clips on YouTube, so check out his channel there as well. We’ve got a fun shirt up at shopty.com about how we were both banned in the UK. I guess we’re outlaws and enemies of the crown, which is kind of badass. And by the way, Hasan, I realized today: we are, I believe, the only ones to have two family members banned by the United Kingdom. So hence, the most dangerous family in the history of the British Empire. Right? I didn’t think we’d get that kind of — I don’t know, in a sense, an accolade or an honor of some sort. And let me double down on what Hasan said: Zack Polanski, head of the Green Party in the UK, is awesome. Make sure you check that out. That’s a really legitimate way to go in the United Kingdom. And here in America, the takeover of the Democratic Party, I don’t believe in 2028 should even be that difficult. Most of the candidates are going to be pro-Israel and tell us how wonderful that country is. You will find the candidates that are authentically in favor of American sovereignty instead of serving another country. I think we could do that in ‘28. Thanks, Hasan, we appreciate it. We’ll see if we can ever go back to the UK. Maybe we’ll do that speech at Oxford Union together anyway, because Oxford Union is trying to put that together even if it’s virtual. That might even be later this week, so everybody can check that out. When we come back later in the program, what we’re going to do next is how Israel’s currently destroying the peace plan we have by defying Donald Trump and bombing Lebanon. So, Hasan, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

Hasan Piker: Alright, thanks for having me. Bye, guys.

Cenk Uygur: Yep. See you at Thanksgiving.