WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:08.120 You've probably heard of infrastructure-as-a-service cloud providers such as Amazon AWS and, to a lesser degree, Microsoft's Azure cloud platform. 00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:10.260 But have you heard of OpenStack? 00:00:10.260 --> 00:00:19.920 It's an incredibly powerful infrastructure-as-a-service platform where you can buy it as a service or install it in your own data center to build your own private cloud. 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:21.920 Yeah, private clouds. That's a thing. 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:29.280 Flavio Percoco, who works at Red Hat and spends his days writing Python code for OpenStack, is here to tell us all about it. 00:00:29.700 --> 00:00:34.840 This is Talk Python2Me, episode number 33, recorded October 16th, 2015. 00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:06.160 Welcome to Talk Python To Me, a weekly podcast on Python, the language, the libraries, the ecosystem, and the personalities. 00:01:06.160 --> 00:01:10.300 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. Follow me on Twitter where I'm @mkennedy. 00:01:10.300 --> 00:01:16.760 Keep up with the show and listen to past episodes at talkpython.fm, and follow the show on Twitter via at Talk Python. 00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:24.580 Let me introduce Flavio. Flavio Percoco is a software engineer at Red Hat, where he spends his days working on OpenStack. 00:01:24.580 --> 00:01:32.120 In his spare time, he speaks at conferences, contributes to Rust, plays with MongoDB, smokes his coffee, and drinks his pipe. 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:34.520 Flavio, welcome to the show. 00:01:34.520 --> 00:01:37.460 Thank you, Michael. Thanks for having me here. It's really exciting. 00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:44.500 Yeah, it's really exciting, and it's great to catch up with you. It's been a few years since we've met up at the last MongoDB Master Summit in New York City, right? 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:48.900 Yeah, it is. I think it's exactly like two years from there, yeah. 00:01:48.900 --> 00:01:50.120 Yeah, almost. Cool. 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:54.360 So we're not going to talk about MongoDB today, even though it is excellent. 00:01:54.360 --> 00:02:00.740 We're going to talk about OpenStack and your work at Red Hat and cloud computing and all that kind of stuff, right? 00:02:00.740 --> 00:02:05.260 Yeah. I'm really excited about sharing more stuff about OpenStack. 00:02:05.260 --> 00:02:09.840 I spend most of my time there, honestly, so I have a lot to say. 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.180 Yeah, that's excellent. 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:17.060 So before we get into what OpenStack is and all the details, what's your story? How did you get into programming? 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:22.260 I guess my story about how I got into programming is not like... 00:02:22.260 --> 00:02:26.480 I guess there are many people like me out there, but it's not like most of the cases where you just like... 00:02:26.480 --> 00:02:28.700 You were born knowing that you wanted to be a programmer. 00:02:28.700 --> 00:02:33.100 In my case, I actually didn't know what I wanted to do until very late. 00:02:33.100 --> 00:02:36.900 And I started digging into different areas. 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:43.360 I went to study medicine, and then I went to be a psychologist, and then I wanted to learn foreign languages. 00:02:43.980 --> 00:02:46.520 And at some point I said, like, let me... 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.180 Like, I saw this lump course that I... 00:02:50.180 --> 00:02:53.740 Somewhere, and it's like, okay, like doing webpages. 00:02:53.740 --> 00:02:54.720 It sounds cool. 00:02:54.720 --> 00:02:57.240 And I just gave it a try. 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:00.760 And I just fell in love with it and started doing more. 00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:03.680 And I guess that's how I actually started. 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:08.260 I tried to go to college, and it just didn't work for me, actually. 00:03:08.260 --> 00:03:10.620 And I just like... 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:16.360 I dropped out of college at some point, and actually it was very early in my career, in my studies there. 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.100 And I just went straight to working. 00:03:19.100 --> 00:03:23.560 And I already knew how to program, and I had done a couple of courses anyway. 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:28.440 And I got into my first job and started improving and learning a lot from open source. 00:03:28.440 --> 00:03:35.660 And so I guess, like, it would be fair to say that, like, my background in programming is actually just open source. 00:03:35.660 --> 00:03:40.240 I started learning from other projects and sharing everything I did. 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.180 I joined IRC channels and spent a lot of time there and learned from others. 00:03:44.660 --> 00:03:46.600 Many good people out there. 00:03:46.600 --> 00:03:52.580 And I guess I just made my way through it and got where I'm at today. 00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:54.240 Yeah, that's excellent. 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:59.120 And, you know, I had a similar path in that I sort of became an accidental programmer. 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:03.080 I just learned programming because I was trying to do something else, and I needed to know it. 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:04.860 And I realized, wait, this is way better. 00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:07.420 So, yeah, there's a lot of us out there like that. 00:04:07.420 --> 00:04:12.080 Yeah, I feel really lucky to have just sort of stumbled into such a cool area. 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.400 Yeah, same here. 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:15.960 Yeah, so that's how you got into programming. 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:16.720 How did you get into Python? 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:25.220 Well, like I said, like, my first approach to programming was that LAMP course I did a long time ago. 00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:28.260 So that obviously means that I learned PHP there. 00:04:28.260 --> 00:04:32.680 And from PHP, I just decided that I wanted to create my own web browser. 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:37.540 So I started learning C# for some reason because I didn't know enough back then. 00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:40.160 And I just, like, started playing with it, and I had all the plugins and stuff. 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.700 And then I realized that that wasn't actually a very good idea. 00:04:44.140 --> 00:04:46.920 And I found Python through a friend of mine. 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.120 And he just started explaining it to me. 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.100 And I also attended, like, a small, like, Python 101. 00:04:52.100 --> 00:04:56.200 And I just, like, took off from there. 00:04:56.200 --> 00:04:59.380 And my first job was actually on Python. 00:04:59.380 --> 00:05:06.640 And it allowed me to learn way more about it and, you know, like, improve my skills. 00:05:06.640 --> 00:05:09.080 And I just kept doing Python ever since then. 00:05:09.640 --> 00:05:10.680 Yeah, that's excellent. 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:15.920 And today you get paid to write open source code with Python, right? 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:16.820 Yeah. 00:05:16.820 --> 00:05:17.460 That's awesome. 00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:18.160 So what do you do? 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.680 I get paid to write open source code. 00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:23.060 And it's, like, 100 upstream. 00:05:23.060 --> 00:05:30.660 So I'm even happier because I'm just, I feel like I'm giving back to all those guys that, at some point, they gave me a lot. 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:31.940 And they allowed me to learn. 00:05:31.940 --> 00:05:40.100 And so I like, like, one of the things I love is not just the technology I'm working on, but the fact that I know that it will be used by some other people to learn how to program. 00:05:40.180 --> 00:05:45.500 And I'm also part of all the, like, you know, like, mentoring other people. 00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:47.860 And there are several programs in OpenStack to do that. 00:05:47.860 --> 00:05:50.660 And I'm always, like, trying to participate there. 00:05:50.660 --> 00:05:54.340 So that's part of, like, what excites me the most about my current job, actually. 00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:55.040 Yeah, that's great. 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:56.200 And you work at Red Hat, right? 00:05:56.200 --> 00:05:57.800 I work at Red Hat. 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.460 I'm a software engineer there. 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:07.500 And, like I said, I work 100% upstream on OpenStack, mostly oriented on storage projects. 00:06:07.500 --> 00:06:09.480 Like, OpenStack has many pieces. 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:11.040 Like, it's huge right now. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:16.400 There's something like 375 GitHub repositories or something like this, right? 00:06:16.400 --> 00:06:17.940 Yeah, it is insane. 00:06:17.940 --> 00:06:21.820 Like, many of those are services. 00:06:21.820 --> 00:06:26.300 Tons of them, like, probably most of them are, like, libraries. 00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:31.160 And then we have a lot of projects that we use for CI that we have written ourselves. 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:39.720 And there are many other projects that started off as part of OpenStack, but they just, like, improved and became, like, standalone services. 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:41.380 And some others that just died. 00:06:41.380 --> 00:06:46.920 And we just kept the code there, obviously, because it's OpenStack, and why would you ever delete COVID? 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.240 Let's start with what is OpenStack. 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:54.100 And I just should tell everybody, like, I really don't know a whole lot about OpenStack. 00:06:54.100 --> 00:06:58.780 I've looked at it a little bit, but I'm basically new to it as well. 00:06:58.780 --> 00:07:00.380 So tell me, what is OpenStack? 00:07:00.380 --> 00:07:03.080 I'm going to tell you how OpenStack started. 00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:05.440 It started as an infrastructure as a service provider. 00:07:05.440 --> 00:07:13.160 And it just focused a lot on making sure that you could use all the hardware you have to provide cloud services. 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:19.120 So it would use all your compute servers and power, sorry. 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.980 All your compute power, and it will just allow you to use it as a service. 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:27.080 And it will do the same for your networking routers and everything you have there. 00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:34.200 And it will create, like, private networks for you, clouding IP addresses and everything that you would need to have a cloud. 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:37.120 And it will do the same with the storage and everything. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:39.820 But it was very focused on infrastructure as a service. 00:07:39.820 --> 00:07:48.340 So infrastructure as a service is basically using all your, like, metal to provide, like, a cloud service. 00:07:48.340 --> 00:07:54.180 You would just reuse all that and make sure that you can run several services and virtual machines and everything in there. 00:07:54.580 --> 00:08:01.880 If I had, like, Python web app I wanted to host, just, like, a simple blog or something, I probably wouldn't go to OpenStack. 00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:10.200 But if I wanted to create a better data center or my hosting company or something like this, then I would look to use OpenStack to make that happen. 00:08:10.200 --> 00:08:10.820 Is that accurate? 00:08:10.820 --> 00:08:11.980 Right. 00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:13.380 That's quite accurate. 00:08:13.380 --> 00:08:16.460 But there's, and that's how it started, actually. 00:08:16.460 --> 00:08:17.720 But there's more to it now. 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:24.280 And it's the fact that at some point, the community realized that there was more to OpenStack than just infrastructure. 00:08:24.280 --> 00:08:36.460 And it just, I like to say, it just outgrow itself to the point that it just became a cloud provider, like, entire cloud provider, instead of just focusing on infrastructure. 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:41.900 And you now have a whole lot of other services that are required to actually maintain a cloud. 00:08:41.900 --> 00:08:50.380 And this is something that I believe the community learned from its own experience while working on OpenStack. 00:08:50.380 --> 00:08:53.100 And it's the fact that to run a cloud, you need more than just infrastructure. 00:08:53.100 --> 00:09:06.220 If you want to be a good cloud provider or you want to have a cloud that you can manage easily without suffering a lot on maintenance and controlling it and ops and everything, you need more than that. 00:09:06.220 --> 00:09:07.100 You need, like, DNS. 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:09.820 You need to make your networking easy to use. 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:11.540 You probably need a database as a service. 00:09:11.540 --> 00:09:21.480 You need to make your own database if you have a big, like, you know, developer's team and you want those steps to be able to create databases easily without, like, spending much time maintaining those. 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.700 But there's, like, you can use that in production as well. 00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:27.260 So there are many other services that are not necessarily infrastructure. 00:09:27.260 --> 00:09:30.280 Like, you even have, like, web search as a service. 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:35.340 So you can store all your files and things into your cloud. 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:41.060 So there's a lot into cloud development, into cloud management and cloud services than just infrastructure. 00:09:41.060 --> 00:09:45.520 So that's something, like, the community learned by itself while working on OpenStack. 00:09:45.520 --> 00:09:48.080 And it just became more than infrastructure. 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:49.520 It's now, like, a cloud provider. 00:09:49.660 --> 00:09:51.620 That's how I like to think about it. 00:09:51.620 --> 00:09:53.080 That's how I like to present OpenStack. 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:56.280 It is a cloud provider, and it will give you everything you need to run your cloud. 00:09:56.280 --> 00:10:09.960 To me, it feels somewhat on par with something like EC2 and the related services at AWS, much more so than, like, somewhere where you can just go get a virtual machine. 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:17.420 You know, somewhere like DigitalOcean, where they have great virtual machines, but there's not, like, there's not a lot more than that around to help you, right? 00:10:17.420 --> 00:10:18.080 There's not. 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:19.300 Exactly. 00:10:19.300 --> 00:10:19.420 Exactly. 00:10:19.420 --> 00:10:20.000 Exactly. 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:28.900 The virtual private networks and the load balancing and the storage and the persistent disks across machines and all that kind of stuff, right? 00:10:28.900 --> 00:10:30.900 That is correct. 00:10:30.900 --> 00:10:34.720 And I've been giving this talk, like, this year. 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.960 It's called Infrastructure as a Service Beyond Infrastructure. 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:50.740 Well, like, I kind of, like, talk about what I think your cloud should have in order for it to be considered a cloud, which doesn't mean that companies or services like DigitalOcean are not good. 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.620 But they're, like, they're not exactly clouds. 00:10:53.620 --> 00:10:55.520 They just provide a different kind of service. 00:10:55.520 --> 00:11:00.840 Like, DigitalOcean basically just provides you virtual private services, like servers, sorry. 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.920 So you create your server and you have to manage it yourself. 00:11:03.920 --> 00:11:08.060 You don't have everything that you would need to run a cloud right there, right? 00:11:08.060 --> 00:11:22.740 And if you want to put your application in a cloud, you would just go to either OpenSack or other cloud providers that have all those services that you would need to run your application and don't die while trying to run it. 00:11:23.740 --> 00:11:36.920 Yeah, so I feel like services like DigitalOcean are excellent, but if you build increasingly complex and large-scale systems, you're probably going to, at some point, outgrow them. 00:11:36.920 --> 00:11:42.540 And then you're going to start looking around and say, okay, well, I need more than just a bunch of good VMs. 00:11:42.540 --> 00:11:45.940 I need, you know, all this orchestration and putting it together. 00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:50.720 And a lot of people go to places like EC2 or maybe Azure. 00:11:51.840 --> 00:12:01.100 But OpenStack, is there like an online service I can go pay a monthly fee and get access to the system? 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:03.180 Or is this something I've got to put on just my data centers? 00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:04.780 Oh, not at all. 00:12:04.780 --> 00:12:08.900 There are many public cloud providers running OpenStack right now. 00:12:08.900 --> 00:12:14.660 A good example, probably one of, well, I'm actually not sure if it is the oldest one. 00:12:14.660 --> 00:12:15.820 It's probably one of the oldest one. 00:12:15.820 --> 00:12:17.400 It is Rackspace itself. 00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:18.920 They run OpenStack. 00:12:18.920 --> 00:12:20.620 There's also HP Cloud. 00:12:20.620 --> 00:12:22.460 There's VEX Host. 00:12:22.460 --> 00:12:23.820 There are tons of them. 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.580 There's Enter Cloud in Italy as well. 00:12:27.580 --> 00:12:32.220 So there are many cloud providers, public cloud providers running OpenStack right now. 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:33.580 They have different versions. 00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:35.740 They're not all running the latest version. 00:12:36.380 --> 00:12:48.400 When you have to decide whether you want to go to AWS, Azure, or just use OpenStack, you have to ask yourself many questions. 00:12:48.400 --> 00:12:57.260 One of the things that I believe make OpenStack the best solution for you is the fact that OpenStack is interpretable. 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:14.780 Whatever you write on, whatever your application looks like, if you're running it in an OpenStack cloud and you want to migrate it from this cloud to another cloud and it is still OpenStack, you are guaranteed to be able to do that in a painless way. 00:13:14.900 --> 00:13:18.760 Because different OpenStack versions are interpretable. 00:13:18.760 --> 00:13:19.860 They keep backwards compatibility. 00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:24.960 So you can be sure that whatever works in HP, an HP cloud will also work in Rackspace cloud. 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.780 If you write scripts on top of it and everything. 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:39.120 Yeah, that's a pretty unique proposition because AWS is entirely proprietary, even though internally it runs a ton of open source stuff. 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.960 It's all behind the scenes, super secret. 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:46.580 Same thing with Windows Azure and some of the other hosting places, right? 00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:58.820 So the fact that you can take this maybe from a cheap hosting company over to Rackspace and then maybe even later into your own data center, if you really wanted to do that. 00:13:59.040 --> 00:13:59.160 Right. 00:13:59.160 --> 00:13:59.480 Right. 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:02.540 But that's a possibility that you don't really have to worry about, right? 00:14:02.540 --> 00:14:03.680 Because it's all OpenStack. 00:14:03.680 --> 00:14:05.040 Exactly. 00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:07.780 And you don't just have to... 00:14:07.780 --> 00:14:11.040 It's not just about migrating your application from one cloud to another cloud. 00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:21.860 It also applies to using several clouds at the same time because not all public clouds are supposed to run all the services in order for them to be OpenStack compliant. 00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:27.500 I can decide to have my own public cloud running just Trove, which is database as a service. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.760 And there are other clouds like HP Cloud that did run all OpenStack, right? 00:14:31.760 --> 00:14:37.640 But as a user, if I want to have my internal cloud... 00:14:37.640 --> 00:14:39.360 So let me give you an example. 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.220 Let me put it in another way. 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:50.300 I may want to have all my web heads and my compute nodes running in one of the public clouds, like let's say Rackspace, right? 00:14:50.300 --> 00:14:51.060 Or HP Cloud. 00:14:51.060 --> 00:14:52.280 I want to have them there. 00:14:52.280 --> 00:14:54.400 But I want all my data to be in my cloud. 00:14:54.400 --> 00:15:00.660 So I can use my own servers and install my database as a service there or whatever, my own database and have a hybrid cloud. 00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:08.600 So it is not just a matter of deciding whether you want to have, whether you want to use a public cloud or a private cloud. 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:20.400 But it's the fact that you can also mix them together and you are going to be guaranteed that they will be interpretable and they can all use the same service with the same data and everything. 00:15:20.620 --> 00:15:21.900 Really interesting point. 00:15:21.900 --> 00:15:26.780 I hadn't thought of just taking an individual piece and running that locally. 00:15:26.780 --> 00:15:28.460 But yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:33.860 So cloud computing is, of course, important to Python developers. 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:42.160 But OpenStack is especially relevant to Python developers because Python is used a little bit inside the development, right? 00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:43.300 Yeah. 00:15:43.300 --> 00:15:53.800 I normally say that OpenStack right now, well, when I joined OpenStack, it's probably not true anymore. 00:15:53.800 --> 00:15:56.940 When I joined OpenStack, it was like 500% Python. 00:15:56.940 --> 00:16:03.040 And there was like this 0.0001% of JavaScript because we have a UI dashboard. 00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:10.840 And I say it's not true anymore because we now also maintain like puppet manifests ourselves. 00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:12.580 And that's not Python, obviously. 00:16:12.580 --> 00:16:15.280 We keep like we maintain Ansible scripts. 00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:27.040 Like there are teams focusing a lot on operations and making OpenStack installable and easy to manage and reduce the maintenance more than from users. 00:16:27.040 --> 00:16:30.220 So it's not just like 500% Python anymore. 00:16:30.220 --> 00:16:38.140 But I can say like all the services right now are written in Python and they are mostly pure Python. 00:16:38.260 --> 00:16:41.020 There are some services doing some experiments with Google as well. 00:16:41.020 --> 00:16:43.760 But most of them are Python, yeah. 00:16:43.760 --> 00:16:47.980 Like the community is definitely 100% Python oriented. 00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:52.820 And there are like obviously other tastes for other programming languages. 00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:54.040 Yeah, of course. 00:16:54.040 --> 00:16:55.600 So that's really excellent. 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.620 And I think that's a great testament to Python itself, right? 00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:03.900 That you can build such an amazing infrastructure as a service system with it, right? 00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:05.600 Yeah, it is. 00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:09.060 And I would say it even goes beyond that. 00:17:09.060 --> 00:17:24.020 It's not just the fact that you can build such a cloud system with Python, but the fact that it has allowed us to make it in an easy enough way and to be more welcoming as a community. 00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:31.760 Like to welcome more people because Python is easier to learn because Python is, it has a big, well, it has a quite big community. 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.860 It is even for beginners. 00:17:35.860 --> 00:17:48.060 Like we have many people like just still in college or right out of college coming to OpenStack saying, okay, like I still don't have a job, but I want to do something interesting. 00:17:48.060 --> 00:17:50.380 And they apply for all these mentorship programs. 00:17:50.380 --> 00:17:53.800 They're like Google, Google Summer of Code or Outreach. 00:17:53.800 --> 00:17:58.920 And they will just learn as they go from OpenStack itself. 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:14.080 So, and all the CI system and the fact that we can test all the programs, all the services easily and run like the number of jobs, of CI jobs that we run daily is insanely high. 00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:20.180 And I already forgot the exact number, but when I heard it the first time, I was like, that's insane. 00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:28.880 Like you wouldn't be able to do that with other programming languages like that would require you to compile the software before you can actually test it, for instance. 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:39.360 It's interesting to compare OpenStack against places like AWS, where if you're wondering how some service works, you really could go in there and look. 00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:42.920 And it's out there for everybody to see what's going on, right? 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:45.020 Yeah, it is. 00:18:45.020 --> 00:18:54.880 And one other thing that I like, and I also hate at the same time about OpenStack is the fact that it is non-opinionated in many different areas. 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:59.920 And by non-opinionated, I mean that you have, let's talk about Nova, for instance. 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:04.080 Nova is the compute service, and it's the one that will allow you to create virtual machines, right? 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:07.100 But there are many hypervisors out there. 00:19:07.100 --> 00:19:11.680 So most of the services, several of the services in OpenStack are just provisioning services. 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.840 They would sit on top of something else, and they would just manage that. 00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:23.720 So the default hypervisor for Nova right now is like LibWare to KVM. 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:29.700 But you can also have Hyper-V and VMware. 00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:37.360 You can have different hypervisors under the hood, and you would just pick whatever you want when you want to deploy OpenStack. 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:52.020 And what it gives you is that it gives you the opportunity to pick your own flavor of what the underlying virtualization layer should look like, 00:19:52.020 --> 00:19:54.320 and run whatever you prefer there. 00:19:54.320 --> 00:19:59.600 It is good to some extent because it just gives you all that flexibility. 00:20:00.020 --> 00:20:06.820 And the part that I don't really like a lot is because it just forces you to create more and more abstractions on top of that, 00:20:06.820 --> 00:20:14.760 which I don't think is necessarily bad in many areas, but there are some other areas where being more opinionated would be good. 00:20:15.760 --> 00:20:21.180 And the reason I'm saying this is because I'm pretty sure AWS is just focused on any single hypervisor, 00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:26.920 whereas in OpenStack you can also look at how you can orchestrate not only a cloud service, 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:32.020 but also a cloud service that can run on top of several different underlying technologies 00:20:32.020 --> 00:20:38.460 that would allow you to just pick your favorite flavor and just run with it. 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:40.560 Yeah, that's interesting. 00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:43.940 You know, that kind of stuff is good for the flexibility, 00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:48.980 but it also makes it potentially harder for people who are getting started to know what to choose, right? 00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:53.940 Because they've got to make a decision instead of just following some opinionated sort of guidance, right? 00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:55.520 Exactly. 00:20:55.520 --> 00:20:59.460 And you just made a very good point, 00:20:59.460 --> 00:21:04.920 and that's something that we started looking at in the last, I would say, two cycles probably. 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:12.180 And it's the fact that we wanted to have some kind of like starter kit for people that are coming to OpenStack 00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:16.720 and they say, okay, okay, I've heard OpenStack is cool, so where should I start? 00:21:17.540 --> 00:21:28.000 And this starter kit is like four services running in a very simple and tiny that's lightweight, 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:28.980 let's say lightweight. 00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:35.900 And so that you can just run those four, you can play with OpenStack a little bit, 00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:41.140 but you're not going to hit a dead end because as soon as you start liking it 00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:46.300 and you want to grow OpenStack and your own development and your own deployment, I'm sorry, 00:21:46.300 --> 00:21:50.700 you can just start from there and just install more services 00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:54.000 or change some configurations parameter and make it just better. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.940 So that starter kit is really important because it just lets you know where to start from 00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:04.500 and what are the kind of like essential services to actually have a cloud. 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.220 Yeah, that sounds really helpful. 00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:06.820 Excellent. 00:22:06.820 --> 00:22:08.860 I'll link to that in the show notes as well. 00:22:08.860 --> 00:22:09.560 Awesome. 00:22:09.560 --> 00:22:23.160 This episode is brought to you by Hired. 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:28.160 Hired is a two-sided, curated marketplace that connects the world's knowledge workers 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:29.620 to the best opportunities. 00:22:29.620 --> 00:22:33.980 Each offer you receive has salary and equity presented right up front 00:22:33.980 --> 00:22:38.800 and you can view the offers to accept or reject them before you even talk to the company. 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:45.160 Typically, candidates receive five or more offers in just the first week and there are no obligations ever. 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.240 Sounds pretty awesome, doesn't it? 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.300 Well, did I mention there's a signing bonus? 00:22:49.300 --> 00:22:53.400 Everyone who accepts a job from Hired gets a $2,000 signing bonus. 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.720 And as Talk Python listeners, it gets way sweeter. 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:05.280 Use the link Hired.com slash Talk Python To Me and Hired will double the signing bonus to $4,000. 00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:07.020 Opportunity's knocking. 00:23:07.020 --> 00:23:10.640 Visit Hired.com slash Talk Python To Me and answer the call. 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:25.140 So, speaking of starter kits and so on, when would it make sense to think, 00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:32.420 okay, it's time for me to stop just running a virtual machine here and there and try to focus on 00:23:32.420 --> 00:23:38.880 maybe bringing OpenStack into my software deployment data center type scenario? 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.100 What kind of apps do I run? 00:23:41.100 --> 00:23:47.020 I guess what sort of experiences you have with people getting started and then growing into this? 00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:52.980 That's actually a very good question because many people think that in order to run OpenStack, 00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:59.620 the requirement for running OpenStack is having a huge public cloud service. 00:24:00.300 --> 00:24:01.780 And that is not true. 00:24:01.780 --> 00:24:07.340 Like, we have people running small deployments of OpenStack. 00:24:07.340 --> 00:24:11.520 I myself run a small deployment of OpenStack in my test environment. 00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:15.820 And that's what I used to create, new virtual machines where I would test OpenStack and everything I'm doing. 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:23.120 So, and I would say, like, the moment you start needing more than just one virtual machine, 00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:28.980 and that would be a good moment for you to start considering something like OpenStack. 00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:32.520 Or even starting from the moment where you need a virtual machine. 00:24:32.520 --> 00:24:35.840 And the reason I'm saying this is because if you're working on a service, 00:24:35.840 --> 00:24:38.500 you're likely going to scale it at some point. 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:43.000 It's not going to scale enough within a single virtual machine, 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.980 and you'll need more compute power or storage or network. 00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:48.940 At least for durability, right? 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:50.120 Exactly. 00:24:50.120 --> 00:24:50.760 Yeah. 00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:51.760 Exactly. 00:24:51.760 --> 00:25:02.260 And so you likely need something that will allow you to add more compute or whatever to your deployment. 00:25:02.260 --> 00:25:08.100 And from that moment, you already need something like OpenStack, like a cloud provider. 00:25:08.100 --> 00:25:14.860 And if you're starting, you definitely don't want to give money to other people. 00:25:14.860 --> 00:25:19.820 But obviously, like OpenStack, it doesn't run on air. 00:25:19.820 --> 00:25:21.280 It obviously needs some compute. 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:26.240 And it really depends on what your needs are in that case. 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.760 But seriously, when you start needing virtual machines to deploy yourself, 00:25:30.760 --> 00:25:33.820 that's probably a very good moment to start using OpenStack. 00:25:33.820 --> 00:25:38.040 Because it will allow you to do that easily, and it will manage all the virtual machines for you. 00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:41.120 And the fact that you don't have to care about it, 00:25:41.120 --> 00:25:46.500 the fact that you don't have to worry about starting the virtual machine yourself, 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:48.520 about making sure that it is running there, 00:25:48.520 --> 00:25:52.940 and that your data is in the right volume or whatever, 00:25:52.940 --> 00:25:56.240 and that you're networking, setting up all of your networking, which is very painful. 00:25:57.040 --> 00:26:00.840 All those things that OpenStack makes easier for you, 00:26:00.840 --> 00:26:08.560 they will pay off later by saving you a lot of time on development and maintenance and deployment. 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:10.600 Yeah, that's good advice. 00:26:10.600 --> 00:26:17.300 And one of the things that OpenStack has that I'm not entirely sure that AWS has, 00:26:17.300 --> 00:26:19.240 I haven't seen it, maybe I'm wrong, 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:24.240 is like a local dev version of OpenStack. 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.340 So if I'm disconnected from the internet or whatever, 00:26:27.340 --> 00:26:30.240 I just want to build out something, I could actually do that locally, right? 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:31.420 Yeah. 00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:33.600 Yeah, you can do that locally with OpenStack. 00:26:33.600 --> 00:26:38.840 You can install OpenStack on your own laptop and just have it there running. 00:26:38.840 --> 00:26:45.220 And that's something that's also very helpful in OpenStack, 00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:48.840 like the fact that you can just run it there and start not only playing with it, 00:26:48.840 --> 00:26:55.140 but also using it for your own purposes and make something good out of it. 00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:59.560 That's something you don't get from AWS or any other public cloud 00:26:59.560 --> 00:27:02.140 that are managed by private companies. 00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:07.100 Because, well, okay, obviously they don't want to allow you to access the code 00:27:07.100 --> 00:27:08.280 and install it locally. 00:27:08.280 --> 00:27:10.400 That's their business, I guess. 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.020 Yeah, it is their business. 00:27:12.020 --> 00:27:14.920 But I think that's a really cool advantage 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:17.560 because I haven't seen anything like this for AWS. 00:27:17.560 --> 00:27:22.740 And you're usually on the internet, but at the same time, 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:25.940 there's certainly situations where you have spotty connectivity 00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:28.260 and you'd rather be able to just work, right? 00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:30.540 But also you don't necessarily want to pay for that, 00:27:30.540 --> 00:27:33.800 depending on whether the company's paying, you're paying, right? 00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:36.040 That might or might not be a consideration. 00:27:36.040 --> 00:27:38.040 Sure. 00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:39.800 I mean, it's not just about paying. 00:27:39.800 --> 00:27:43.820 Paying is definitely a big point here, 00:27:43.820 --> 00:27:45.380 but it's not just about paying. 00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:48.780 It's also about using your resources wisely, 00:27:48.980 --> 00:27:50.920 and by resources I also mean time. 00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:53.060 Like, you don't need... 00:27:53.060 --> 00:27:56.380 The other thing is that people think that you need a lot of power 00:27:56.380 --> 00:27:57.540 to run up the stack. 00:27:57.540 --> 00:28:00.580 It might have been true in the past, 00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:06.640 but it has come a long way on using less resources 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.520 from your computing nodes 00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:13.880 to the point where you can also just run OpenStack on top of Docker. 00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:19.880 And instead of using a hypervisor, 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.980 you could use just Docker and create Linux containers 00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:25.900 which are cheaper for your laptop. 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:27.540 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:28:27.540 --> 00:28:29.920 Yeah, I definitely want to come back and talk about Docker. 00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:31.580 But maybe before we do, 00:28:31.580 --> 00:28:35.860 maybe we should talk about the various building blocks of OpenStack 00:28:35.860 --> 00:28:37.860 because if people are kind of new to it, 00:28:37.860 --> 00:28:40.220 they maybe don't know what it offers, what it doesn't. 00:28:40.220 --> 00:28:45.120 If we start from top to bottom from a user perspective, 00:28:45.120 --> 00:28:49.580 I guess the first service that a user would get is Keystone, 00:28:49.580 --> 00:28:51.380 which is the one that provides authentication. 00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:54.740 Whenever you want to log into OpenStack Cloud, 00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:56.360 you're likely going to talk to Keystone 00:28:56.360 --> 00:28:59.500 to get a token or something that will... 00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:01.180 create a session for you 00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:02.500 so that you can talk to other services 00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:04.540 and use that as an authenticated user 00:29:04.540 --> 00:29:07.280 and get your goal and all the information you need from there. 00:29:07.280 --> 00:29:07.780 Sure. 00:29:07.780 --> 00:29:10.000 And you guys have a web front-end, 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:13.280 like a UI and a command-line interface and an API, right? 00:29:13.280 --> 00:29:15.060 That is correct. 00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:16.240 Okay. 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:17.020 That is correct. 00:29:17.860 --> 00:29:21.320 I would say we have a UI and an API. 00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:23.660 We have a lot of CLI tools, 00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:29.880 but you could also write your own in your own language if you want, right? 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:34.400 And the CLI tool is super useful and we all use it 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.860 and we tend to think about it as the reference to access OpenStack, 00:29:38.020 --> 00:29:41.340 but the actual reference is the API that is deployed 00:29:41.340 --> 00:29:45.000 and then that's the way you actually talk to OpenStack. 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.860 And so we have a UI. 00:29:46.860 --> 00:29:49.480 It used to be based in Django 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.120 and now they moved a lot of things to just JavaScript. 00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:56.960 And it allows you to access all the services you have deployed. 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:58.380 Your OpenStack deployment, 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:02.100 you don't need to have them all deployed to use the UI. 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.840 You can just deploy the UI service 00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:08.180 and just have a few of the OpenStack services running in the ground 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:11.780 and it will just show you the tabs, so to speak, 00:30:11.780 --> 00:30:13.920 for those services that you have enabled. 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:16.820 But even to log in into the UI, 00:30:16.820 --> 00:30:18.140 you need to access Keystone, 00:30:18.140 --> 00:30:19.960 which is the one that provides your authentication. 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:22.260 So then you have the UI, like I said, 00:30:22.260 --> 00:30:25.720 and then you have a whole bunch of other services 00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:29.940 that will provide that cloud thing for you. 00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.420 One of them is Nova. 00:30:32.060 --> 00:30:33.580 Nova is the one that provides, 00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:37.300 that manages all the hypervisors and compute resources for you. 00:30:37.300 --> 00:30:40.660 And then you have Neutron. 00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:44.140 Neutron is the one responsible for doing all the networking. 00:30:44.140 --> 00:30:47.260 It will create networks, routers, 00:30:47.260 --> 00:30:51.380 and it has different support for different network layers. 00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:53.440 I'm honestly not a network expert, 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:58.100 so right now I'm just saying the things I know there are in Neutron, 00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:02.460 but I probably don't necessarily know what all those things mean. 00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:05.800 And then you also have Cinder, 00:31:05.800 --> 00:31:07.980 which is the one that provides block devices, 00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:11.260 and it takes different storage devices, 00:31:12.300 --> 00:31:14.840 and it allows you to also attach those devices, 00:31:14.840 --> 00:31:17.580 those volumes to the virtual machines you're running, 00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:22.440 so you have all your data persisted in your storage. 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:24.700 What else? 00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:26.640 You also have Swift, 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.220 which is an object store, 00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:31.620 and it's pretty much like S3, 00:31:31.620 --> 00:31:35.800 in case people are not very familiar with object store. 00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:36.760 It provides, 00:31:36.760 --> 00:31:39.000 it has its own API, 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.020 but it also has support for the S3 API, 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:42.780 so if you have a service that, 00:31:42.780 --> 00:31:44.720 a script that talks to S3, 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.260 and you want to give Swift a try, 00:31:46.260 --> 00:31:47.500 you can just install Swift, 00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:50.620 install the Swift S3 layer, 00:31:50.620 --> 00:31:52.280 and you can talk to S3, 00:31:52.280 --> 00:31:53.880 even using the Boto library. 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:54.900 Oh, that's cool. 00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:55.700 That's a nice feature. 00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:57.140 Yeah, 00:31:57.140 --> 00:31:57.640 yeah, 00:31:57.640 --> 00:31:58.000 there is. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.100 Some of the services have, 00:32:00.100 --> 00:32:01.340 yeah, 00:32:01.340 --> 00:32:02.780 some of the services have that as well, 00:32:02.780 --> 00:32:04.220 but some others have dropped it. 00:32:05.600 --> 00:32:06.280 I also, 00:32:06.280 --> 00:32:08.880 I forgot one of the current services is Glance. 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.100 The fun fact is I'm the technical leader of that project, 00:32:12.100 --> 00:32:13.200 and I just forgot about it. 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:13.880 So, 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:18.300 Glance is the service that provides images for your cloud, 00:32:18.300 --> 00:32:23.480 so whenever you want to start a virtual machine, 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.500 you've got to tell Nova what image you want to run, 00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:28.680 and you've got to tell Nova, 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:28.900 hey, 00:32:28.900 --> 00:32:30.520 I want to run this Fedora image. 00:32:30.520 --> 00:32:32.020 Can you boot it for me? 00:32:32.020 --> 00:32:34.260 And in that moment, 00:32:34.260 --> 00:32:35.380 Nova will talk to Glance, 00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:36.020 and it will say, 00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.460 hey, Glance, 00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:37.420 you have this image. 00:32:37.420 --> 00:32:38.500 Like, 00:32:38.500 --> 00:32:40.420 I was asked to boot this image with this ID, 00:32:40.420 --> 00:32:42.860 and then Glance will just provide the image to Nova, 00:32:42.860 --> 00:32:44.860 and Nova will do all the magic. 00:32:44.860 --> 00:32:45.640 So, 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.660 Glance is an image registry. 00:32:47.660 --> 00:32:49.620 You will have all your images there, 00:32:49.620 --> 00:32:52.520 and whenever you create a snapshot from your virtual machine, 00:32:52.520 --> 00:32:55.220 the snapshot will be created in the form of an image, 00:32:55.220 --> 00:32:56.760 and it will be uploaded back to Glance 00:32:56.760 --> 00:33:01.500 so that you can boot it afterwards whenever you need it. 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.460 Nice. 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:03.620 Can you make images, 00:33:03.620 --> 00:33:03.920 like, 00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:04.980 locally on your machine, 00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:06.920 and then upload them to be booted? 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:07.360 Absolutely. 00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:07.800 Yes. 00:33:07.800 --> 00:33:08.180 That's cool. 00:33:08.180 --> 00:33:09.800 Yeah, 00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:11.200 and it has support for different, 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.620 for different images formats. 00:33:13.620 --> 00:33:15.860 It is not tied to a single format. 00:33:15.860 --> 00:33:17.260 You can upload raw images, 00:33:17.260 --> 00:33:18.360 cue call images, 00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:19.960 VHDs, 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:21.740 whatever image format you want to upload there. 00:33:21.740 --> 00:33:24.100 As long as your hypervisor knows how to run those, 00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:25.680 I think you're going to be just fine. 00:33:26.580 --> 00:33:26.840 Yeah, 00:33:26.840 --> 00:33:27.340 very nice. 00:33:27.340 --> 00:33:27.500 So, 00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:31.960 those are all the services involved in sort of running and creating the virtual machines. 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:32.940 And then you also have, 00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:33.500 like, 00:33:33.500 --> 00:33:34.840 some deployment tools. 00:33:34.840 --> 00:33:42.260 You said there's actually people working just almost dedicated to Ansible and Chef and Puppet work. 00:33:42.320 --> 00:33:42.520 Yeah, 00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:43.340 there are many, 00:33:43.340 --> 00:33:44.220 there are many, 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.200 many other services. 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.060 So, 00:33:46.060 --> 00:33:51.960 the ones that help with all the operations of maintaining and deploying OpenStack, 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:52.660 probably, 00:33:52.660 --> 00:33:53.280 we just, 00:33:53.280 --> 00:33:53.780 we have, 00:33:53.780 --> 00:33:54.000 like, 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:54.760 Puppet manifest, 00:33:54.760 --> 00:33:55.660 we have Ansible, 00:33:56.220 --> 00:33:57.960 we have a service called Triple O, 00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:58.860 which is, 00:33:58.860 --> 00:34:01.700 it's Triple O because it's called OpenStack on OpenStack. 00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:04.500 It basically means it's using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack. 00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:05.360 What else? 00:34:05.360 --> 00:34:06.980 We have other, 00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:08.820 well, 00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:14.920 there are several installers around the community maintained by different companies as well 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.760 that will allow you to install OpenStack. 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:23.640 And the fun fact about OpenStack is that the problem is not just installing it. 00:34:23.640 --> 00:34:25.920 Installing OpenStack was, 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:27.180 hard at the beginning. 00:34:27.180 --> 00:34:28.840 It has come a long way. 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:29.900 But the, 00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:31.920 what really matters and what, 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:32.200 what, 00:34:32.200 --> 00:34:34.840 what's really interesting is the, 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:35.640 like, 00:34:35.640 --> 00:34:37.600 the life cycle of an OpenStack deployment. 00:34:37.600 --> 00:34:39.060 It's not just installing it, 00:34:39.060 --> 00:34:40.180 but also upgrading it. 00:34:40.180 --> 00:34:40.920 Like, 00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.880 making sure it runs well, 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.140 making sure that there are not pieces falling, 00:34:45.140 --> 00:34:46.880 falling apart in some, 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:48.160 in some of the OpenStack areas. 00:34:48.160 --> 00:34:48.840 So, 00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:51.660 all that life cycle of OpenStack is, 00:34:51.660 --> 00:34:52.480 is what, 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.500 what installers are specializing themselves now. 00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:56.080 Yeah, 00:34:56.080 --> 00:34:59.720 that can be a real challenge in infrastructure as a service scenarios, 00:34:59.720 --> 00:35:00.100 right? 00:35:00.100 --> 00:35:01.600 Right, 00:35:01.600 --> 00:35:04.640 especially because you are running actual software on top of it. 00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:05.120 Like, 00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:07.520 you're running your production environments in many cases, 00:35:07.520 --> 00:35:08.800 or test or whatever, 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:10.160 analysis environments, 00:35:10.420 --> 00:35:13.640 and you want to make sure that your virtual machines don't die, 00:35:13.640 --> 00:35:14.140 um, 00:35:14.140 --> 00:35:15.700 out of the blue, 00:35:15.700 --> 00:35:16.520 uh, 00:35:16.520 --> 00:35:18.300 and that your data is still persisted, 00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:20.380 and that you're going to be able to access it afterwards, 00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:22.640 and it's not going to die in one of the upgrades, 00:35:22.640 --> 00:35:24.100 from one version to another. 00:35:24.100 --> 00:35:25.080 And, 00:35:25.080 --> 00:35:26.220 and in many cases, 00:35:26.220 --> 00:35:26.900 and there are many, 00:35:26.900 --> 00:35:27.720 um, 00:35:27.720 --> 00:35:28.120 there, 00:35:28.120 --> 00:35:28.640 there, 00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:31.260 there are a couple of folks working on this around the communities, 00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:31.800 that is, 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.880 is to provide, 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.180 uh, 00:35:33.180 --> 00:35:33.940 live upgrades, 00:35:33.940 --> 00:35:34.840 live migrations, 00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:35.580 uh, 00:35:35.580 --> 00:35:36.020 for, 00:35:36.020 --> 00:35:37.000 for, 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:38.020 for some of their resources, 00:35:38.020 --> 00:35:40.060 like live migrating virtual machines from, 00:35:40.060 --> 00:35:42.460 from one compute node to another compute node, 00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:43.480 like migrating, 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:44.020 uh, 00:35:44.020 --> 00:35:44.940 volumes from, 00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:46.760 from one storage to another storage. 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:47.480 Um, 00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:48.280 those are very, 00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:49.380 very interesting things. 00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:50.100 Yeah, 00:35:50.100 --> 00:35:50.300 that, 00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:50.980 that is a, 00:35:50.980 --> 00:35:52.040 a big challenge, 00:35:52.040 --> 00:35:54.640 but really super valuable if you get it done right, 00:35:54.640 --> 00:35:54.840 yeah? 00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:55.640 Yeah. 00:35:55.640 --> 00:35:55.700 Yeah. 00:35:55.700 --> 00:36:13.460 This episode is brought to you by Codeship. 00:36:13.460 --> 00:36:16.040 Codeship has launched organizations, 00:36:16.040 --> 00:36:17.100 create teams, 00:36:17.100 --> 00:36:19.260 set permissions for specific team members, 00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:22.300 and improve collaboration in your continuous delivery workflow. 00:36:22.300 --> 00:36:25.260 Maintain centralized control of your organization's project, 00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:25.800 projects, 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.200 and teams with Codeship's new organizations plan. 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:29.980 And as Talk Python listeners, 00:36:29.980 --> 00:36:33.720 you can save 20% off any premium plan for the next three months. 00:36:33.720 --> 00:36:35.900 Just use the code TALKPYTHON, 00:36:35.900 --> 00:36:36.540 all caps, 00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:37.240 no spaces. 00:36:37.240 --> 00:36:41.720 Check them out at Codeship.com and tell them thanks for supporting the show on Twitter, 00:36:41.720 --> 00:36:42.980 where they're at Codeship. 00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:51.720 So all of that sounds like infrastructure as a service, 00:36:51.720 --> 00:36:52.940 but then on top of that, 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:53.800 you have some more, 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:54.260 you know, 00:36:54.260 --> 00:37:00.820 platform as a service type of things like queuing and DNS and so on, 00:37:00.820 --> 00:37:00.960 right? 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.520 Do you want to talk about what you got there a little bit? 00:37:02.520 --> 00:37:03.840 Absolutely. 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:08.100 So other services that are in the OpenStack, 00:37:08.100 --> 00:37:09.880 what we call the OpenStack Big Tent, 00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:14.940 and it's like this huge Big Tent where we welcome projects that are, 00:37:14.940 --> 00:37:18.420 that are targeting to making the cloud better. 00:37:19.020 --> 00:37:19.820 we have, 00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:20.900 we have Trove, 00:37:20.900 --> 00:37:22.220 which is database as a service. 00:37:22.220 --> 00:37:23.820 We have Zakar, 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:25.480 which is messaging as a service. 00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.720 We have Q, 00:37:28.720 --> 00:37:31.400 which is also, 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:33.460 which is brokers as a service. 00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:35.780 Instead of providing messaging as a service, 00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:36.480 it provides, 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.580 it provisions brokers for you, 00:37:38.580 --> 00:37:41.280 so you don't have to maintain your own rabbit and you run it, 00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:44.600 but it will maintain it for you and it allows you to create clusters and everything. 00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:47.240 What else we've got? 00:37:47.240 --> 00:37:48.960 We've got DNS as a service. 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:51.120 We've got load balances as a service. 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:57.680 We've got telemetry and metering services so that you can monitor your cloud environment. 00:37:57.680 --> 00:38:02.180 And so every OpenStack service, 00:38:02.180 --> 00:38:02.960 or most of them, 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:08.120 emit notifications every time something happens within the service. 00:38:08.120 --> 00:38:10.040 Like whenever you put a new virtual machine, 00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:10.460 it will say, 00:38:10.460 --> 00:38:10.720 hey, 00:38:10.720 --> 00:38:12.540 I'm putting a new virtual machine with this image. 00:38:12.540 --> 00:38:14.600 Whenever you do that with a blog device, 00:38:14.600 --> 00:38:15.320 it will do the same. 00:38:15.740 --> 00:38:22.680 And then there's this metering service that will just get all those notifications 00:38:22.680 --> 00:38:25.060 and will create statistics for you. 00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:27.640 It will allow you to see what's going on in your cloud, 00:38:27.640 --> 00:38:30.120 when all those virtual machines were started or not. 00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:32.340 And it will also allow you to build on top of that. 00:38:32.340 --> 00:38:33.480 Based on that information, 00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:34.400 you can build users. 00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.240 Like you've been using a lot of like, 00:38:36.240 --> 00:38:39.620 like and virtual machines and compute resources or storage, 00:38:39.620 --> 00:38:41.200 or you've been using these images. 00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.400 And you can also even build based on the images they're using 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:49.600 and all like different features that can be enabled or disabled in a cloud environment. 00:38:49.600 --> 00:38:50.880 What else? 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:51.620 Oh, 00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:52.480 Jesus. 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.560 There are many others and I just forgot about that. 00:38:54.560 --> 00:38:54.680 Yeah, 00:38:54.680 --> 00:38:55.120 there's a lot, 00:38:55.120 --> 00:38:55.460 aren't there? 00:38:55.460 --> 00:38:56.020 Yeah. 00:38:56.020 --> 00:38:58.620 So could you maybe walk us through what it's like? 00:38:58.620 --> 00:39:00.720 So I've already got my OpenStack all set up, 00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:05.920 but I would like to have a database and I'd like to have three web frontends 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:08.020 and a load balancer in a virtual private network. 00:39:08.020 --> 00:39:09.680 Like what are the steps to make that happen? 00:39:09.680 --> 00:39:11.660 So you want to have a database, 00:39:11.660 --> 00:39:13.980 you want to have a load balancer, 00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:16.580 and you want to have like three web heads. 00:39:16.580 --> 00:39:16.820 Yeah, 00:39:16.820 --> 00:39:17.160 exactly. 00:39:17.160 --> 00:39:17.920 Something like this. 00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.400 So I guess the first step would, 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.800 would be creating your database so that you get your, 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:24.640 your URLs connected to your database. 00:39:24.640 --> 00:39:24.920 Okay. 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:25.660 Um, 00:39:25.660 --> 00:39:27.460 and after that, 00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:28.040 uh, 00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:30.600 you would create obviously your private network, 00:39:30.600 --> 00:39:31.480 uh, 00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:32.820 so that whenever you, 00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:33.320 uh, 00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:34.640 put your virtual machines, 00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:35.060 uh, 00:39:35.060 --> 00:39:35.780 they will connect, 00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:37.460 they will use a network and they will, 00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:37.820 uh, 00:39:37.820 --> 00:39:39.260 get some IP assigned, 00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:41.080 IPs assigned based, 00:39:41.080 --> 00:39:41.440 uh, 00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:42.160 from that network. 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.380 and once you have your network, 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:45.300 you will also, 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.900 you will start your virtual machines. 00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:50.020 You'll deploy your web heads there. 00:39:50.020 --> 00:39:50.520 Uh, 00:39:50.520 --> 00:39:51.700 obviously they will talk to, 00:39:51.700 --> 00:39:52.440 uh, 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.080 your newly created database. 00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:56.340 And then you'll create your, 00:39:56.340 --> 00:39:58.020 you'll configure your load balancer, 00:39:58.020 --> 00:39:58.940 uh, 00:39:59.000 --> 00:39:59.540 to, 00:39:59.540 --> 00:40:03.460 to balance the load across those three web heads. 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:08.620 And you can do all that without installing, 00:40:08.620 --> 00:40:09.160 like, 00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.380 I'm, 00:40:09.380 --> 00:40:11.640 I'm trying to make sure I'm not saying something wrong here. 00:40:11.640 --> 00:40:12.600 That you can, 00:40:12.600 --> 00:40:19.820 you can do that all that without installing any single service that is not open stack. 00:40:19.820 --> 00:40:23.040 Like you can do that by using just CLI tools and say like, 00:40:23.040 --> 00:40:24.160 give me a load balancer, 00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:26.220 balance load across these three, 00:40:26.220 --> 00:40:26.940 three nodes. 00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:28.500 Give me three virtual machines. 00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:32.200 And you don't have to install a single service yourself, 00:40:32.200 --> 00:40:33.280 but you don't have to install, 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:34.040 I don't know, 00:40:34.040 --> 00:40:36.480 HAProxy yourself or NGINX. 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:37.720 You don't have to do that. 00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:38.340 Uh, 00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:40.200 you can do that all using, 00:40:40.200 --> 00:40:41.880 like just using open stack tools, 00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:42.500 which is, 00:40:42.500 --> 00:40:43.700 it just like, 00:40:43.700 --> 00:40:45.140 it just blew my mind right now. 00:40:45.140 --> 00:40:45.900 Yeah. 00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:46.220 That's, 00:40:46.220 --> 00:40:47.640 that's really cool. 00:40:47.640 --> 00:40:52.340 And could I actually put all that together in like an Ansible playbook and just run it and make it all happen? 00:40:53.020 --> 00:40:53.640 Oh yeah. 00:40:53.640 --> 00:40:54.960 That just makes it even better. 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:55.820 Um, 00:40:55.820 --> 00:40:56.500 like you, 00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:58.080 you can just script that, 00:40:58.080 --> 00:40:58.900 uh, 00:40:58.900 --> 00:40:59.220 because, 00:40:59.220 --> 00:40:59.760 uh, 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.140 every single CLI tool is, 00:41:02.140 --> 00:41:02.740 um, 00:41:02.740 --> 00:41:04.820 like the client libraries in open stack, 00:41:04.820 --> 00:41:06.460 they're all written in Python, 00:41:06.460 --> 00:41:07.320 uh, 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:07.720 right now, 00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:09.460 but there are also some other outside, 00:41:09.460 --> 00:41:10.120 um, 00:41:10.120 --> 00:41:11.720 the repos that are written in other languages. 00:41:11.720 --> 00:41:12.080 Anyway, 00:41:12.080 --> 00:41:12.700 I digress. 00:41:12.700 --> 00:41:13.280 Uh, 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:13.720 you can, 00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:20.000 you can get your libraries and you can write scripts on top of that and make that all scriptable and, 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:21.520 and either using Ansible, 00:41:21.680 --> 00:41:25.460 pop it or even your own script because you don't want to use any of those tools. 00:41:25.460 --> 00:41:25.860 Yeah. 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:26.060 Yeah. 00:41:26.060 --> 00:41:26.360 That's, 00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:27.040 that's cool. 00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:28.440 That it's, 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:29.880 it's amazing times we live in, 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:30.100 right? 00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:31.680 Absolutely. 00:41:31.680 --> 00:41:32.800 Like I, 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:35.120 I normally talk about this and I say like, 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:35.800 you know, 00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:35.800 you know, 00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:36.700 if your clouds, 00:41:36.700 --> 00:41:38.140 if your cloud don't provide, 00:41:38.140 --> 00:41:39.240 uh, 00:41:39.240 --> 00:41:42.320 if your cloud doesn't provide you a load balance as a service, 00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:43.840 I believe your cloud is incomplete. 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.780 And now that you just asked me to build that change of events, 00:41:47.780 --> 00:41:48.620 um, 00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:49.460 how they would work. 00:41:49.460 --> 00:41:50.100 I'm just like, 00:41:50.100 --> 00:41:50.560 whoa, 00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:51.100 I mean, 00:41:51.100 --> 00:41:52.740 the fact that you can do it actually, 00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:56.080 like just using CLI tools and you can get your application running in, 00:41:56.080 --> 00:41:57.540 in no time, 00:41:57.540 --> 00:41:57.980 basically. 00:41:57.980 --> 00:41:59.080 It's just amazing. 00:41:59.080 --> 00:41:59.460 Yeah, 00:41:59.560 --> 00:42:00.320 it really is. 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:03.660 So what's Red Hat's involvement in OpenStack? 00:42:03.660 --> 00:42:05.820 Like why you work for Red Hat, 00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.900 but you work on OpenStack. 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.820 What's the story there? 00:42:07.820 --> 00:42:11.180 The story is Red Hat is full, 00:42:11.180 --> 00:42:12.220 uh, 00:42:12.220 --> 00:42:13.540 immersed in OpenStack. 00:42:13.540 --> 00:42:17.040 Like we are 100% on, 00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:20.040 on the project and we believe 100% on it. 00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:21.600 And we are, 00:42:21.600 --> 00:42:25.120 we are betting a lot on cloud and, 00:42:25.120 --> 00:42:29.540 and different flavors and versions of clouds and whatever will make it. 00:42:29.540 --> 00:42:33.260 make your cloud better and your development workflows better. 00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:36.940 And that will allow you to scale your application and, 00:42:36.940 --> 00:42:38.600 and your environments, 00:42:38.600 --> 00:42:39.940 either private or public, 00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:43.960 which basically means that when we see something like OpenStack, 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:44.840 we say, 00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:46.000 we gotta be there. 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.040 And that's, 00:42:47.040 --> 00:42:47.820 that's what we did. 00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:48.280 We, 00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.900 we just jumped into OpenStack and we started working on OpenStack full time 00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:53.140 upstream right away. 00:42:53.140 --> 00:42:55.160 We got developers and we just put them there. 00:42:55.160 --> 00:42:56.420 And that's, 00:42:56.420 --> 00:42:58.240 that's actually my case as well. 00:42:58.620 --> 00:43:00.060 And that I'm part of, 00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:05.100 of that upstream only team that dedicates full time to making, 00:43:05.100 --> 00:43:08.140 or trying to make OpenStack better every day. 00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:09.140 That's a great mission. 00:43:09.140 --> 00:43:13.860 Then we talked a little bit about why OpenStack, 00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:16.700 why it's good for OpenStack to be built with Python. 00:43:16.700 --> 00:43:18.100 It has this great community. 00:43:18.540 --> 00:43:20.240 It's easy for newcomers to, 00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:23.400 to come on board and sort of learn from OpenStack, 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:24.600 but also contribute to it. 00:43:24.600 --> 00:43:25.880 But what, 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:29.460 what I recently learned that I thought was pretty interesting is it works the 00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:30.260 other way as well. 00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:31.980 Like Python is benefiting from OpenStack, 00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:32.880 right? 00:43:33.980 --> 00:43:34.480 It is. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.480 It is. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:35.540 It is. 00:43:35.540 --> 00:43:36.040 Um, 00:43:36.040 --> 00:43:40.340 I believe one of the good things that OpenStack is giving back, 00:43:40.340 --> 00:43:41.160 uh, 00:43:41.160 --> 00:43:43.500 to Python is actually Python. 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.500 and is the fact that we, 00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:46.500 the community, 00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:48.500 the OpenStack community is huge. 00:43:48.500 --> 00:43:48.500 Uh, 00:43:48.500 --> 00:43:49.500 there's a lot, 00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:51.500 a lot of Python going on there. 00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:53.500 And it's not just huge. 00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:53.940 We have, 00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:57.940 we also have many of the key members of the Python community are also part of the 00:43:57.940 --> 00:43:58.500 OpenStack community, 00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:00.500 which means we are, 00:44:00.500 --> 00:44:01.100 we are, 00:44:01.100 --> 00:44:05.420 we are interconnected with the Python community and everything we do, 00:44:05.420 --> 00:44:08.140 we do it in a way that we can give back to the community. 00:44:08.140 --> 00:44:08.980 We, 00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:10.300 like in the OpenStack community, 00:44:10.300 --> 00:44:12.980 we are very against of, 00:44:12.980 --> 00:44:14.020 uh, 00:44:14.020 --> 00:44:16.500 reinventing the wheel and, 00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:19.820 and redoing things that exist already in the Python community. 00:44:19.820 --> 00:44:24.300 Whenever we can just use a Python library that exists already and make it better, 00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:25.700 which has happened a lot, 00:44:25.700 --> 00:44:26.660 uh, 00:44:26.660 --> 00:44:27.220 we, 00:44:27.220 --> 00:44:28.020 we just do it. 00:44:28.020 --> 00:44:30.540 And if we end up writing our own library, 00:44:30.540 --> 00:44:34.060 we make it in a way that is not OpenStack dependent, 00:44:34.060 --> 00:44:34.740 uh, 00:44:34.740 --> 00:44:37.460 so that we can just give it back to the Python community. 00:44:37.460 --> 00:44:39.420 When it is OpenStack dependent, 00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:42.460 we would just mark it in a way that you would know, 00:44:42.460 --> 00:44:44.500 it's like all the dope libraries that you know, 00:44:44.500 --> 00:44:45.420 those are part of dope. 00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:45.940 Well, 00:44:45.940 --> 00:44:48.100 we do the same with OpenStack. 00:44:48.100 --> 00:44:53.180 There are some libraries that we have built that are meant to be used by OpenStack. 00:44:53.180 --> 00:44:54.380 And it's not, 00:44:54.380 --> 00:44:56.380 it doesn't necessarily mean that, 00:44:56.380 --> 00:44:56.940 uh, 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:57.940 you cannot use them, 00:44:57.940 --> 00:44:58.580 uh, 00:44:58.580 --> 00:44:59.460 outside of OpenStack, 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:01.860 but it definitely means the API is, 00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:09.460 the API has been taught for OpenStack in a way that will make OpenStack better or easier to consume the library across OpenStack. 00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:11.980 so I believe one of the, 00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:15.980 the best thing that OpenStack is giving back to Python is actually Python. 00:45:15.980 --> 00:45:20.380 There's a lot of contributions back to the language itself, to the testing libraries. 00:45:20.380 --> 00:45:21.900 like I said before, 00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:22.900 like I said before, 00:45:22.900 --> 00:45:27.900 like our CI system is huge and it runs a lot of patches and tests per day. 00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:36.420 And all the things that have been written and found out in our CI system that are not necessarily a problem in OpenStack, but probably a problem outside of OpenStack. 00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:38.420 All those things have been contributed back. 00:45:38.420 --> 00:45:39.940 many, 00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:42.940 many new workflows from, 00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:43.940 from a test perspective, 00:45:43.940 --> 00:45:48.940 from a requirements and dependencies management perspective have been contributed back to the community somehow. 00:45:48.940 --> 00:45:50.460 even in way, 00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:52.780 even in a way of documentation, 00:45:52.780 --> 00:45:53.380 um, 00:45:53.380 --> 00:45:55.060 I believe that's a huge, 00:45:55.060 --> 00:45:55.380 uh, 00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:57.740 benefit the Python community is getting from OpenStack. 00:45:57.740 --> 00:45:58.860 Many things like, 00:45:58.860 --> 00:46:01.660 it recently happened like two weeks ago, 00:46:01.660 --> 00:46:02.260 um, 00:46:02.260 --> 00:46:05.220 there was a new release of Request. 00:46:05.220 --> 00:46:06.020 And, 00:46:06.020 --> 00:46:06.460 uh, 00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:06.740 you know, 00:46:06.740 --> 00:46:07.420 Request has a, 00:46:07.420 --> 00:46:09.020 it vendors your, 00:46:09.020 --> 00:46:09.420 uh, 00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:10.620 your lead three. 00:46:10.620 --> 00:46:15.220 And it just like the latest release just brought some of the OpenStack client libraries. 00:46:15.220 --> 00:46:18.620 And we just found it and it was a lot of like table listed. 00:46:18.620 --> 00:46:20.020 And one hour later, 00:46:20.020 --> 00:46:23.620 we just found the issue and we just went back to Request and said like, 00:46:23.620 --> 00:46:23.820 Hey, 00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:24.340 you know what? 00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:24.700 I got, 00:46:24.700 --> 00:46:27.220 you just broke OpenStack and some of the, 00:46:27.220 --> 00:46:27.780 yeah. 00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:29.700 Call up Kenneth writes and say, 00:46:29.700 --> 00:46:30.180 Hey Kenneth, 00:46:30.180 --> 00:46:31.080 we have a problem. 00:46:31.080 --> 00:46:32.300 Exactly. 00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:33.600 We've got a problem. 00:46:33.600 --> 00:46:34.600 Um, 00:46:34.600 --> 00:46:38.580 but it turns out like some of the Request maintainers are also part of OpenStack. 00:46:38.580 --> 00:46:40.620 So it was even easier to just say like, 00:46:40.620 --> 00:46:41.120 Hey man, 00:46:41.120 --> 00:46:41.440 uh, 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:42.000 do your mind? 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.880 And like the issue was resolved in no time. 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.320 Like the patch was written and landed. 00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:49.220 In no time. 00:46:49.220 --> 00:46:51.400 The release came a couple of days later. 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:52.020 Uh, 00:46:52.020 --> 00:46:52.580 in the meantime, 00:46:52.580 --> 00:46:52.860 we, 00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:55.520 we kind of tried to apply the workaround for it, 00:46:55.520 --> 00:46:59.240 but like we resolved the whole issue within a week, 00:46:59.240 --> 00:47:02.440 which we were talking about Request, 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:06.420 which is a like widely used library everywhere. 00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:07.560 and OpenStack, 00:47:07.560 --> 00:47:09.520 which has a huge ecosystem, 00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:12.520 which is hard to maintain consistent and sane. 00:47:12.520 --> 00:47:21.740 Making all that happen in a single week means that we've managed to create a workflow or to contribute back to the Python community in a way that is effective as well. 00:47:21.740 --> 00:47:22.300 Yeah. 00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:22.580 That's, 00:47:22.580 --> 00:47:23.540 that's a really great story. 00:47:23.540 --> 00:47:29.120 And one of the points that I heard someone make was you guys are really betting on Python. 00:47:29.120 --> 00:47:30.440 And if for some reason, 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:31.620 say like a section, 00:47:31.620 --> 00:47:34.600 some operation or something in Python is too slow, 00:47:34.600 --> 00:47:35.220 instead of saying, 00:47:35.220 --> 00:47:35.420 Oh, 00:47:35.420 --> 00:47:35.900 forget this. 00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:40.340 We're going to switch over to go or something like you guys actually across, 00:47:40.340 --> 00:47:40.660 you know, 00:47:40.660 --> 00:47:43.220 Red Hat and Rackspace and so on, 00:47:43.220 --> 00:47:50.160 actually employ some of the core contributors and actually just make Python better to fix those problems. 00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:50.680 And that, 00:47:50.680 --> 00:47:51.640 that benefits everyone. 00:47:51.640 --> 00:47:51.900 Right. 00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:53.340 Absolutely. 00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:53.900 Like we, 00:47:53.900 --> 00:47:55.440 like we, 00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.140 I can talk about Red Hat because I'm part of it and I know, 00:47:58.140 --> 00:47:59.380 and I know how it works there. 00:47:59.380 --> 00:48:03.340 It's not just about just talking about the company that pays my salary. 00:48:03.340 --> 00:48:04.140 Um, 00:48:04.140 --> 00:48:05.300 it's yeah. 00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:06.700 But like we've, 00:48:06.700 --> 00:48:16.280 we've hired people dedicated to open source library and like they work on those open source libraries that OpenStack consumes. 00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:18.340 They don't even work on OpenStack. 00:48:18.860 --> 00:48:19.340 And, 00:48:19.340 --> 00:48:23.780 and we do that because we believe in OpenStack and that library is a huge part of OpenStack. 00:48:23.780 --> 00:48:28.960 And if that library breaks or that person just decides to leave the library and drop it and never maintain it, 00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:31.060 I'm not going to say the community won't pick it up, 00:48:31.060 --> 00:48:34.000 but why wouldn't you like, 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:42.340 why wouldn't you give this guy that has dedicated a lot or GERD that has dedicated a lot of time on that library an opportunity to just keep doing it and, 00:48:42.340 --> 00:48:44.200 and have OpenStack benefit from that. 00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:44.620 Right. 00:48:44.620 --> 00:48:48.840 So it's not a matter of hiring people or having people working on OpenStack. 00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:49.340 full time, 00:48:49.340 --> 00:48:55.480 but also having people working on libraries that OpenStack uses to make sure that OpenStack stays sane and, 00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:57.240 and those libraries won't break it in the future. 00:48:57.240 --> 00:48:57.640 Yeah. 00:48:57.640 --> 00:49:00.860 That's a great stabilizing force in the whole open source industry, 00:49:00.860 --> 00:49:01.160 right? 00:49:02.060 --> 00:49:02.560 Yeah, exactly. 00:49:02.560 --> 00:49:03.500 And like I said, 00:49:03.500 --> 00:49:05.860 like OpenStack is a huge ecosystem and, 00:49:05.860 --> 00:49:09.100 and keep it sane and consistent and stable. 00:49:09.100 --> 00:49:12.580 Like it takes a lot of minds and resources to do that. 00:49:12.580 --> 00:49:15.440 And I'm not going to say like it's rocket science, 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:16.980 but it definitely, 00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:21.640 there are many separate independent pieces that need to talk to each other. 00:49:21.700 --> 00:49:23.860 And if one of those pieces don't do that, 00:49:23.860 --> 00:49:26.420 it'll just all fall down right away. 00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:27.380 Yeah. 00:49:27.380 --> 00:49:32.000 Thinking of all the interdependencies between 375 different repositories. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:33.060 That's right. 00:49:33.060 --> 00:49:33.420 That's, 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:34.040 that's complicated, 00:49:34.040 --> 00:49:35.760 but you guys are doing it. 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:36.160 That's awesome. 00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:39.740 So one thing I did want to come back to is Docker. 00:49:39.740 --> 00:49:42.820 What's the story with Docker and OpenStack? 00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:45.860 We were just embracing it. 00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:51.720 It is not a matter of whether you have to pick Docker or you have to pick OpenStack. 00:49:51.720 --> 00:49:52.120 Even, 00:49:52.120 --> 00:49:53.520 even if you have Docker, 00:49:53.520 --> 00:49:56.840 you still need to maintain all your containers, 00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:57.300 right? 00:49:57.300 --> 00:49:59.340 There are other tools to do that out there, 00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:01.040 but OpenStack is also one of them. 00:50:01.040 --> 00:50:03.740 You can have services, 00:50:03.740 --> 00:50:05.460 there's Magnum, 00:50:05.780 --> 00:50:06.220 and it'll, 00:50:06.220 --> 00:50:12.020 it'll just allow you to manage all your Docker containers like you would do with Nova and virtual machines, 00:50:12.020 --> 00:50:12.600 basically. 00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:15.860 So you don't really need to pick one or the other. 00:50:15.860 --> 00:50:17.580 We believe in Docker. 00:50:17.580 --> 00:50:22.100 We believe Docker is an amazing tool and it gives you a lot of power and, 00:50:22.100 --> 00:50:22.960 and resources. 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:24.800 It does that in a different way. 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:25.200 It has, 00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:28.580 it has its own issues as virtual machines have their own, 00:50:28.580 --> 00:50:30.660 but we, 00:50:30.660 --> 00:50:34.980 we believe that the containers and Docker itself is also part of, 00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:36.340 of what a good cloud, 00:50:36.340 --> 00:50:37.180 uh, 00:50:37.180 --> 00:50:37.960 is and, 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:40.200 and which is why we have also services that, 00:50:40.200 --> 00:50:41.660 that would allow you to just use Docker. 00:50:41.660 --> 00:50:41.740 there. 00:50:41.740 --> 00:50:46.280 So much like I can go up to OpenStack and say, 00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:50.880 I would like three virtual machines with this image and then put them into a private network. 00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.980 I can say, 00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:56.620 I would like these three containers based on these images and I want them in a private network. 00:50:56.620 --> 00:50:57.520 Is that possible? 00:50:57.520 --> 00:50:58.800 Yes, 00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.280 absolutely. 00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:00.140 And you can also say, 00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:03.360 I want two virtual machines and just one container and make them work to do it. 00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:04.560 That's awesome. 00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:06.220 Yeah. 00:51:06.220 --> 00:51:07.200 You just like, 00:51:07.200 --> 00:51:08.140 you pick your, 00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:10.040 you pick your flavor and like, 00:51:10.040 --> 00:51:11.660 is it really like, 00:51:11.660 --> 00:51:15.360 it like everything in our industry depends on the context and your needs. 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:15.740 Right. 00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:17.720 And that's probably one of the best excuse, 00:51:17.720 --> 00:51:18.280 uh, 00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:19.340 we have in our industry. 00:51:19.340 --> 00:51:21.080 Whenever you don't want to answer something, 00:51:21.080 --> 00:51:21.740 you just say that, 00:51:21.740 --> 00:51:22.480 uh, 00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:23.300 like, 00:51:23.300 --> 00:51:23.520 well, 00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:23.660 yeah, 00:51:23.660 --> 00:51:24.280 but I digress. 00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:24.560 That's, 00:51:24.560 --> 00:51:25.080 that was a joke. 00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:25.840 Um, 00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:27.940 but even for open stack, 00:51:27.940 --> 00:51:28.800 it really depends on, 00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:29.700 on your needs actually. 00:51:29.700 --> 00:51:30.960 Like if you don't want to, 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:35.020 if you don't need all the security layers and features that a virtual machine, 00:51:35.020 --> 00:51:35.640 uh, 00:51:35.640 --> 00:51:36.680 provides and give you, 00:51:36.680 --> 00:51:38.000 you can also use Docker. 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:39.760 It's not just a matter of resources. 00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:43.120 It's not like a virtual machine will use more resources than a Docker container. 00:51:43.120 --> 00:51:43.920 Uh, 00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:45.120 to some extent that is true, 00:51:45.120 --> 00:51:48.160 but the footprint of virtual machine has right now, 00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:48.740 nowadays, 00:51:48.740 --> 00:51:50.000 has been improved a lot. 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:50.260 And, 00:51:50.260 --> 00:51:51.840 and I'm not going to say it's as, 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:54.540 it is as cheap as running a Docker container, 00:51:55.060 --> 00:51:55.460 but, 00:51:55.460 --> 00:51:55.940 um, 00:51:55.940 --> 00:51:57.920 it is not as expensive as it used to be. 00:51:57.920 --> 00:51:58.680 Yeah. 00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:02.460 But Docker enables different kinds of workflows and exactly, 00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:03.300 you know, 00:52:03.300 --> 00:52:05.420 super responsive scale, 00:52:05.420 --> 00:52:05.940 right? 00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:06.300 You know, 00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:07.080 a hundred milliseconds. 00:52:07.080 --> 00:52:08.380 You've got a container up and running. 00:52:08.380 --> 00:52:11.520 Like there's just different things you can do and trade offs you can make. 00:52:11.520 --> 00:52:12.280 So it's really cool. 00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:12.980 You guys support it. 00:52:12.980 --> 00:52:14.100 Yeah, 00:52:14.100 --> 00:52:14.700 absolutely. 00:52:14.700 --> 00:52:15.980 Awesome. 00:52:15.980 --> 00:52:17.880 So Flavio, 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:19.940 we're coming up kind of near the end of the show. 00:52:19.940 --> 00:52:24.160 Do you have any like final call to actions or things you want to let people know about that? 00:52:24.180 --> 00:52:25.380 we haven't spoken about yet? 00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:32.240 What I would like to say again is that you don't need to have a huge public cloud for OpenStack to be worth it. 00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:36.980 Like just install it and improve your development and testing workflow using OpenStack. 00:52:37.300 --> 00:52:37.800 Uh, 00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:39.760 you don't need to deploy it on 800 virtual machines. 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:42.680 You have a starter kit and you can just start small, 00:52:42.680 --> 00:52:43.640 give it a try. 00:52:43.640 --> 00:52:44.360 Uh, 00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:45.000 and if you like it, 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:46.180 you can just grow from there. 00:52:46.180 --> 00:52:47.020 All right. 00:52:47.020 --> 00:52:47.440 That's awesome. 00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.200 And they can go out and check out the starter kit to get started maybe, 00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.420 right? 00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:50.740 Right. 00:52:50.740 --> 00:52:51.620 And if it, 00:52:51.620 --> 00:52:52.580 if it doesn't work, 00:52:52.580 --> 00:52:53.600 you know where to find us. 00:52:53.600 --> 00:52:54.480 That's right. 00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:56.420 All right. 00:52:56.420 --> 00:52:57.720 Two final questions before you go. 00:52:57.720 --> 00:52:59.120 If you're going to write some Python code, 00:52:59.120 --> 00:53:00.280 what editor do you open? 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:01.480 Uh, 00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:01.940 right now, 00:53:01.940 --> 00:53:02.320 Emacs. 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:03.280 Um, 00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:03.840 I, 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:05.280 I love both Veeam and Emacs. 00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.020 I used to be a, 00:53:06.020 --> 00:53:07.540 just only Veeam developer. 00:53:07.540 --> 00:53:09.400 Then I just gave Emacs a try. 00:53:09.660 --> 00:53:11.640 and there's a Trump mode that I love. 00:53:11.640 --> 00:53:12.800 Um, 00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:14.360 especially when traveling. 00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:15.120 So, 00:53:15.120 --> 00:53:15.560 uh, 00:53:15.560 --> 00:53:16.460 right now is Emacs. 00:53:16.460 --> 00:53:16.940 That's, 00:53:16.940 --> 00:53:18.100 that's what I often do. 00:53:18.100 --> 00:53:18.400 Oh, 00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:18.700 excellent. 00:53:18.700 --> 00:53:19.020 They've, 00:53:19.020 --> 00:53:19.940 they've converted you, 00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:20.140 huh? 00:53:20.140 --> 00:53:21.520 Yeah, 00:53:21.520 --> 00:53:21.880 man, 00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:22.880 but I can go back. 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:23.780 Like I use both. 00:53:23.780 --> 00:53:24.200 Honestly, 00:53:24.200 --> 00:53:24.480 it's, 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:24.900 it's, 00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:25.740 it's very weird. 00:53:25.740 --> 00:53:28.920 Like sometimes I just run bin and start doing it. 00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:29.120 And, 00:53:29.120 --> 00:53:30.240 but right now, 00:53:30.240 --> 00:53:31.580 most of the time it's just Emacs. 00:53:31.580 --> 00:53:32.700 Cool. 00:53:32.700 --> 00:53:36.600 And of all the thousands of PyPI packages out there, 00:53:36.600 --> 00:53:38.600 what are ones you think people should know about that? 00:53:38.600 --> 00:53:39.420 Maybe they don't. 00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:40.900 Whoa. 00:53:40.900 --> 00:53:43.120 Probably one of the, 00:53:43.120 --> 00:53:44.140 there's, 00:53:44.140 --> 00:53:46.780 there's this package that I was actually creating as part of OpenStack. 00:53:46.780 --> 00:53:47.600 And I like a lot. 00:53:47.600 --> 00:53:47.900 And, 00:53:47.900 --> 00:53:52.420 and it's called also messaging and it's an RPC library. 00:53:52.420 --> 00:53:53.340 Um, 00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:53.740 so, 00:53:53.740 --> 00:53:56.040 and it's important to understand it's an RPC library. 00:53:56.040 --> 00:53:59.120 It does not provide just pure messaging across brokers. 00:53:59.120 --> 00:54:03.980 It is an opinionated RPC library that will allow you to either use RabbitNQ, 00:54:03.980 --> 00:54:04.900 um, 00:54:04.900 --> 00:54:06.000 QP Proton, 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.560 or some other broker that is supported. 00:54:09.080 --> 00:54:09.500 um, 00:54:09.500 --> 00:54:12.160 to create your, 00:54:12.160 --> 00:54:12.780 uh, 00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:17.400 distributed system and make different parts talk through RPC, 00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:18.320 uh, 00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:18.700 calls. 00:54:18.700 --> 00:54:21.300 So that's widely used in OpenStack. 00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:22.860 And it's probably one of the, 00:54:22.860 --> 00:54:23.780 um, 00:54:23.780 --> 00:54:26.460 one of those sticks that if you remove it, 00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:28.000 openstack will just fall down. 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:28.620 And, 00:54:28.620 --> 00:54:36.940 and most of the services that have a distributed architecture in OpenStack are using those messaging right now to make sure that all the pieces in the service can talk to each other. 00:54:36.940 --> 00:54:37.680 Um, 00:54:37.680 --> 00:54:38.600 so if you, 00:54:38.600 --> 00:54:39.780 if you are in the need of, 00:54:39.780 --> 00:54:40.640 of writing, 00:54:40.640 --> 00:54:41.260 uh, 00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:43.860 of having different notes talking to each other and, 00:54:43.860 --> 00:54:46.580 and RPC is one of the things you might want to give a try. 00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:47.200 Well, 00:54:47.200 --> 00:54:49.340 Oslo messaging is an amazing library for that. 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:50.360 perfect. 00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:52.000 So very good recommendation. 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.020 So if you're out there listening, 00:54:54.020 --> 00:54:58.240 go check out OpenStack and check out their starter kit, 00:54:58.240 --> 00:54:59.440 which you can find on the homepage. 00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:00.980 Definitely a cool project. 00:55:01.120 --> 00:55:03.920 And I love the whole Python component to it, 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:04.220 Flavio. 00:55:04.220 --> 00:55:04.680 Thanks. 00:55:04.680 --> 00:55:05.440 Awesome. 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:06.660 Thank you for having me here. 00:55:06.660 --> 00:55:07.320 Yeah. 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:08.020 Thanks for being on the show. 00:55:08.020 --> 00:55:08.440 See you later. 00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:12.320 This has been another episode of Talk Python To Me. 00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:14.280 Today's guest was Flavio Prococo. 00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.080 And this episode has been sponsored by Hired and Cochip. 00:55:17.080 --> 00:55:18.800 Thank you guys for supporting the show. 00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:21.800 Hired wants to help you find your next big thing. 00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:30.420 Visit Hired.com slash Talk Python To Me to get five or more offers with salary and equity presented right up front and a special listener signing bonus of $4,000. 00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:34.220 Cochip wants you to always keep shipping. 00:55:34.220 --> 00:55:38.360 Check them out at Cochip.com and thank them on Twitter via at Cochip. 00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:40.360 Don't forget the discount code for listeners. 00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:41.020 It's easy. 00:55:41.020 --> 00:55:41.880 Talk Python. 00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:42.520 All caps. 00:55:42.520 --> 00:55:43.180 No spaces. 00:55:43.180 --> 00:55:50.140 You can find the links from today's show at talkpython.fm/episodes slash show slash 33. 00:55:50.140 --> 00:55:52.440 And be sure to subscribe to the show. 00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.180 Open your favorite podcatcher and search for Python. 00:55:55.180 --> 00:55:56.480 We should be right at the top. 00:55:56.480 --> 00:56:00.400 You could also find the iTunes and direct RSS feeds in the footer of the website. 00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:05.820 Our music is Developers, Developers, Developers by Corey Smith who goes by Smix. 00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:09.120 You can hear the whole song on talkpython.fm. 00:56:09.120 --> 00:56:10.900 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. 00:56:10.900 --> 00:56:12.700 Thank you very much for listening. 00:56:12.700 --> 00:56:14.960 Smix, take us out of here. 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:24.640 The mic back to who rocked his best. 00:56:24.640 --> 00:56:24.640 The mic back to who rocked his best. 00:56:24.640 --> 00:56:24.640 The mic back to who rocked his best. 00:56:24.640 --> 00:56:24.640 The mic back to who rocked his best. 00:56:24.640 --> 00:56:36.640 The mic back to who rocked his best.